NR 60

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NR 60

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Post by Indstec »

Hi im new to the community. Playing AOE III since three months, im a pr15 now in treaty. I play mostly NR 60 on Orinoko.
Would be nice to have a NR 60 thread here, where players can ask all the questions that are specific for this game mode.

First of all, how do you set team shortcuts? I have team

1 - 10 barracks
2 - 8 stables
3 - 1 art foundry
4 - 3 nats buildings (when i go nats)
5 - TC

8 - culvs
9 - morts
0 - explorer

So i have still 2 spots left. I could for example have two teams of culvs or two art foundries on different teams to make culvs and falcs at same time.
How do you do that?

And how do you build units? I think that its good to queue just one art unit in foundry. Then, when its almost ready you queue more, so you dont have so much blocked pop space during construction time. Do you have any other advises like that. Would be nice, thanks for answearing.
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United States of America dicktator_
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Re: NR 60

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Post by dicktator_ »

You don't need your explorer on a control group because there is a find explorer hotkey. Also you should have at least 2 foundary groups (I use 3) with 1 foundary on each group, since culv production should be more or less constant but sometimes you want to queue horse art and/or mortars at the same time. Also you don't need 8 stables in a group, you only need two because cav trains so fast. For training units, hold shift for faster training units but don't hold shift for slower training units (for you that would mean hold shift to train cav but not for inf). The reason why is because if you don't hold shift the production will be split among all your raxes but if you hold shift the production will stack in 2-3 raxes, and will continue to stack when you retrain units. For instant or almost instant units, production stacking in 1-2 buildings doesn't matter because they train so fast.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Thanks for your advise. Another question: what can i do vs ports on ori playing german or french? They have huge starting army with range boosted mortars, many culvs and organ guns. Sometimes they destroy 3 layers of wall in the first 2 minutes or so.

And what to do against players that just camp behind walls and want me to push, so that i drain? How do you set waypoints from construction buildings and how you position your units? Sometimes there are moments during me pushing, where i have no units left on the battlefield, just some new units on the way. How can i avoid that?
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

A question about decks. I have a good french nats deck, but dont know wich cards should i use for a no nats deck. I have two free card slots, but no space for any cards in age 2.
There are different possibillities:

-trickle cards. I think they are really bad. Why good players use them?

-wood cards. There is not much wood on orinoko, so it shouldnt be a good solution

-infinite unit shipments. 3 cuirs or 20 hurons? Mercs are bad in treaty, so why people use the infinite 20 huron card?
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Re: NR 60

Post by LoudDonkey »

As French you should take Either the wood or food trickle but not both, food is good to help with boom and end trade, but I also pref wood sometimes based on the map because sometimes wood will run out around you and this will keep you from having to send vills long distances and or off another needed resource. For any deck really besides the souix or india you shouldnt take wood cards because there are more valuable ones that are able to take their place. Because they are a special type of nat that civ has available too them, and when you have the upgrade for ants done, if used correctly they could be strong in some cases and helping you push etc.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Ok thanks, i will add food trickle to my deck.
What about the infinite hurons, are they good compared to imperial upgraded units?
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Re: NR 60

Post by chris1089 »

Indstec wrote:Ok thanks, i will add food trickle to my deck.
What about the infinite hurons, are they good compared to imperial upgraded units?

Yes. As with other nats, they can be upgraded in the capitol to legendary I think. Additionally they don't take up pop space. They can be really useful for overpop.
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Re: NR 60

Post by guyshir »

Indstec wrote:Ok thanks, i will add food trickle to my deck.
What about the infinite hurons, are they good compared to imperial upgraded units?

Wood Trickle is better than food trickle.
Hurons are great to tank, and also you have 3 nats upgrade from cards as French (age 3: 25% hp attack, age 2: 15%hp attack, age 2: 20% hp), which make these 20 hurons monsters at tanking shots with range resist. Try to spread them like a line to get most out of them.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Ah nice, many good tips here, thanks
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

How to prevent my art getting flanked? (On orinoko)

Maybe i could have my art as a control group and also my anticav units as a control group. Then i could react fast in case of being flanked.
Also setting my anticav group in defensive mode could help them survive longer.
The problem is, that in NR 60 i sometimes just have to spam units constantly and also many units die constantly at the same moment. So i dont have time to set units in control groups and also set them in defensive mode every some seconds.

So, what could i do? Maybe have two groups of raxes for constantly producing halbs, doppels etc ? Or just go more musk instead of skirms? Not all civs have musk.

I also have the impression, that some players have their whole army nearly always in defense mode.
Am i right with this suggestion?
Then they form a shape with their army like a half of a circle. So its like a unbreakable wall of units. They loose very few units like this.
Is this a constantly done micro, positioning units like this? While the oponnent just spams and looses units all the time?


So, how do you prevent your art being flanked?

Is it good to have the whole army in defensive mode?

How to position your army, so that you dont need to reproduce units every second?
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Re: NR 60

Post by chris1089 »

Treaty is not my forte, I'm sure a high level player can say better, but this sounds like a rally point problem to me. Your rally points should be just behind the fighting(at least for ranged units - I don't know about melee ones) so that they move up and shoot but don't get shot at whilst walking. In terms of control groups, I could do with some advice myself as I only use 1 for each building type and could obviously use more.

In terms of artillery being flanked, pulling them back and moving, z-moving, moving, z-moving small amounts of anticav should be good. If you are playing nats then the holcans are good, germany dops and most other euros small groups of musks.

Again, I'm sure a better player can give you better advice, but I hope this is somewhat helpful.
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Re: NR 60

Post by guyshir »

Indstec wrote:How to prevent my art getting flanked? (On orinoko)

Also setting my anticav group in defensive mode could help them survive longer.
The problem is, that in NR 60 i sometimes just have to spam units constantly and also many units die constantly at the same moment. So i dont have time to set units in control groups and also set them in defensive mode every some seconds.


Try to pull art back when not needed.
Make towers as they have 90 damage to cav with 2 area damage.
Put units in their path
Attach them using other units, which will make his cav attack them unless he re-micors, and you can again micro or kill during the same time.
Spam Explorer(s) and try to crankshot cav frequently.

Don't put anti cav on defense unless mele units like Dops, Maya, Zapotec to protect art (that too should be avoided). Make sure your goons/War wagons are behind skirms.

Try to watch videos on twitch on Nr55/60:
https://www.twitch.tv/debur2001/videos/all
https://www.twitch.tv/nr40_55_60/videos/highlight
https://www.twitch.tv/myownnemesi
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Thanks for your help.
I think its true that it could be a rally roblem. Sometimes battle area moves slowly forward or backward and i dont realize that, because it moves so slowly or i just forget it, so i dont set new rally points. Should get a feeling for that.
Problem is also when it lags, then it has an delay and the flag of rally point appears after some seconds. Have to wait then until flag appears, because otherwise units gather at old rally point, i think. Same could happen, when changing rally point during construction. Not sure about that, am i right?
Its also difficult because you need different rally points for different units, so you have to spend much time on setting rally points. I case of getting your art flanked, anticav units could arrive faster without setting new rally point before construction. Dont know if this makes sense in some cases.

Also attack move does often not work when it lags, sometimes even some moving units stop then. So when i should use it, being sure it works? Only small groups of units? Or maybe only units of one type? Would be good to use attack move more often because my micro is not so good.
Also sometimes art just moves to the target instead of shooting at it, i think even without attack move.
It also happens that the attack cursor of art doesnt appear, when selected. Dont know what to do then, will they shoot or move to the target in most cases, when you command them to attack regardless?

And how does it work with the area damage? How many damage get units around the target, when its 2 area damage?
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Re: NR 60

Post by chris1089 »

Just complain if it lags.
On a serious note, don't attack move with large groups of units and as @gushir said, blocking is effective as all your other units will still be shooting.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Yes but its not so easy sometimes, when there comes a huge mass of cav and half of my units are on the way to battlefield.
Maybe would be good to get used to have always an eye at opponents back walls area, so you could react faster on him.

A question about decks. Playing ports, when i use the church tech for eco, how should be my vills distribution (before and after wood runs out on orinoko)?
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

And how do i use these all coin to wood cards? When should i use them and what to do for that? Should i use them always if possible?
On orinoko, you need to cut wood for making space for beach walls and eco walls. So at least one team member should not use this card, i think.
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Re: NR 60

Post by guyshir »

Indstec wrote:Yes but its not so easy sometimes, when there comes a huge mass of cav and half of my units are on the way to battlefield.
Maybe would be good to get used to have always an eye at opponents back walls area, so you could react faster on him.

A question about decks. Playing ports, when i use the church tech for eco, how should be my vills distribution (before and after wood runs out on orinoko)?

If you are saying most of your units are walking to battlefield, you have wrong unit composition, or big micro problem or even positioning problems. If you are talking about moving units into path, as soon as you see a huge mass of cav approaching (coming out of his walls is the apt time to respond) bring units diagonally back in path, make sure you control the new units and ask them to shoot asap (basically control them before they reach way point), pull back the art to a safe location (in walls, opposite side from direction of cav, or towards the units walking to protect them to reduce time, use judgement to which is most feasible)

Steps we are talking about are: a dragbox of units and right click, drag box of units trained and right click to a location, and right clicking the art control group, which is very much in response time. (if you can also micro musk/dragoons on cav and/or crankshot from explorer, these are added bonus)

Try rotating the camera to the way you like to view the battle because default camera is not same for every orinoco.

Port boom: (~15:30 imperial on orinoco)
Try to max vils without using factories on food. get imperial wood then food upgrade, simultaneous upgrade mills. By this time you will have refrigeration, Sustainable Agriculture and Church card sent. once upgrades are done, put 42-49 vils (7 on each mill) and send church tech, while start getting plantation upgrades and coin cards. You should move off wood at ideally 25th mins in 55 game as factories will generate enough for the whole game after that, and you can get all upgrades with the wood you have chopped.

I prefer 49 mills - 50 coin, 25th minute (with all upgrades and card sent), while fight, I will re macro, accordingly. You can start fight with 120k food, 5-6k wood, 70k coin. Not sure about exact values.

Indstec wrote:And how do i use these all coin to wood cards? When should i use them and what to do for that? Should i use them always if possible?
On orinoko, you need to cut wood for making space for beach walls and eco walls. So at least one team member should not use this card, i think.

These cards are very civ specific (dutch, brits, otto) and they all need to use those cards for their boom. If you have any of these mates, you should always send vils to the crossing section rather than other areas to chop the wood and even they can do it with you because each civ needs to make mills and plantations. Usually brits tend to overgather in this scenario and can get away with it, but dutch and otto usually just chop how much is needed and then they are off wood.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Ok thank you very much. Yes i have these problems with like positioning and also composition i think. Its not always a problem and i also win games, but in almost every game, there is a moment where i run out of units.
I mix all units in my starting army and later just try to react on opponent. Maybe would be better to have a basic composition like skirm goon or something?
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Re: NR 60

Post by guyshir »

When you say you react to opponent means you will wait for your units to be produced (hopefully counter units) until you his units. This means you are never going to be 200 pop or close to it.
Imagine if you have 20 skirms and other has 50 musk. He wins regardless because you don't have enough mass to kill it and you can't kite units on orinoco.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

So you mean a basic composition would be important? I use the counter system and i always try to be on full pop, but i dont really reach full pop army on the battlefield so often.
I think i maybe overreact, sending too much counter units at once, but mostly not micro them. And when opponent changes units fast, i could have not enough pop space for the new counter units in that moment.
So sometimes im maybe just to slow reacting and having a too big part of my army composed of the actual counter unit, which sometimes has to be changed in seconds.
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Question about geman deck

Why so many players say that team 2 sw card is so important in nr60 ? I think its bad because of the following reason:
As german i can send my last gold card at maybe 27 min, thats late. But when i send 2 sw, then i can send my last gold card at maybe 36 min.
Thats a big difference and i collect gold with a huge amount of settler in that time as german. Compared to that, 2 sw seems like nothing.

So team 2 sw isnt worth it, am i right ?
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Re: NR 60

Post by Oliveza »

Indstec wrote:Question about geman deck

Why so many players say that team 2 sw card is so important in nr60 ? I think its bad because of the following reason:
As german i can send my last gold card at maybe 27 min, thats late. But when i send 2 sw, then i can send my last gold card at maybe 36 min.
Thats a big difference and i collect gold with a huge amount of settler in that time as german. Compared to that, 2 sw seems like nothing.

So team 2 sw isnt worth it, am i right ?
no
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Re: NR 60

Post by dicktator_ »

Team sw arrives in the middle of the boom and will help your teammate’s imperial times and let’s them have 103 effective vill pop instead of 99 which will last for the entire game while you missing out on a food card (you should send 15% mills last when doing team sw) is only temporary. The benefits are doubled in 3v3 compared to 2v2 so it’s always worth to send in 3v3 and situational in 2v2.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Ok. And whats about the church card?

I like to have much walls on Ori, so its good to have faster inf, isnt it?
Also dopps would be too slow because of the card that reduces speed.

And whats about the french church card?
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Re: NR 60

Post by Indstec »

Is it worth to have and when should i send it?

If i have to decide, whats better? The church card or infinite gendarme card?

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