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Best civ for treaty, what do u think? For me dutch indians China(my playstyle)

France > China >> Rest.
Dutch worst civ after sioux.

France > China >> Rest is true for Andes. In most other maps China train units too slow to make them 2nd best civ imo.
So, for the majority of maps it would be:
France >> Japan > Russia/Portugal > Rest
But this too can change somewhat depending on maps and if you talk about team games or 1v1.
What doesn’t change is that France is number one.

martinspjuth wrote:France > China >> Rest is true for Andes. In most other maps China train units too slow to make them 2nd best civ imo.
So, for the majority of maps it would be:
France >> Japan > Russia/Portugal > Rest
But this too can change somewhat depending on maps and if you talk about team games or 1v1.
What doesn’t change is that France is number one.

I disagree I think China is still 2nd best off andes too. They can delete vills if the training is a problem or put tower/fac on wood during the boom and gather the coin if trees are an issue. Japan on RE might be OP, it's hard to say because it wasn't being played optimally, I don't see why it would be any stronger off andes than on andes though. The consensus in 2015 was that it's not op because of 28 range arrows and the lack of waypoints on daiymos. Russia I'm pretty sure is not OP unless it's an open base map where getting a full 5 walls is impossible. Ports are OP even on Andes, so I'd say it's actually France>China>port>>rest and doesn't change on different maps.

dicktator_ wrote:

martinspjuth wrote:France > China >> Rest is true for Andes. In most other maps China train units too slow to make them 2nd best civ imo.
So, for the majority of maps it would be:
France >> Japan > Russia/Portugal > Rest
But this too can change somewhat depending on maps and if you talk about team games or 1v1.
What doesn’t change is that France is number one.

I disagree I think China is still 2nd best off andes too. They can delete vills if the training is a problem or put tower/fac on wood during the boom and gather the coin if trees are an issue. Japan on RE might be OP, it's hard to say because it wasn't being played optimally, I don't see why it would be any stronger off andes than on andes though. The consensus in 2015 was that it's not op because of 28 range arrows and the lack of waypoints on daiymos. Russia I'm pretty sure is not OP unless it's an open base map where getting a full 5 walls is impossible. Ports are OP even on Andes, so I'd say it's actually France>China>port>>rest and doesn't change on different maps.

The way I see it China trains units too slow to be able to deal with runs and constantly shifting fronts as well as losing their fb. No matter how much resources you have or how many vills you delete it can’t completely make up for the slow train speed. Making a larger fb can only slightly reduce the problem, not remove it and sometimes there isn’t enough space for a big fb. If you lose your fb as China, it would be really hard to rebuild it in time before you lose considerable amount of ground. If you can really deal with that kind of opponent as China, I’d say you’re right as the Chines economy is so strong.
I don't think Japan is stronger off Andes. They are just stronger relative to China who I argue to be overall weaker off Andes. Japan as well as Russia is mostly considered OP because of their running abilities and the strength they can give to the team. Port is certainly stronger in a standard fight, but they can’t get such deadly results, with little work in a short time, that Japan/Russia can.