In a treaty game, how many layers of walls should you have?

[princeofcarthage]

what dont you understand? i made a few changes to try to make it clearer

When did I say I wont wall enough, I am unable to understand your arguement here. I always wall like 5-6 layers and then a lot after tr ends.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I was talking in general to the commentators saying walls are too expensive or unnecessary when really they are cheap and offer a lot of bennefit

[amsterda]

I make 0 in 1v1 nr 20 unless I'm fighting a runner lol.

[howlingwolfpaw]

ive never tried nr 20. i guess its best to end with a strong age 4 or a weak age 5?

[amsterda]

ive never tried nr 20. i guess its best to end with a strong age 4 or a weak age 5?

Age V, always. Shouldn''t have any problems going V with full army, imp upgrades+capitol ups. Well there''s one exception, with dutch going V isn''t clearly better and it''s more dependent on what situation you''re in.

[charlemagen]

I was talking in general to the commentators saying walls are too expensive or unnecessary when really they are cheap and offer a lot of bennefit

eventually walls do add up and sometimes its a pointless expense. but yes for the most part it they are cheap and you should always wall 4-6 times in any given game,

[fightinfrenchman]

I was talking in general to the commentators saying walls are too expensive or unnecessary when really they are cheap and offer a lot of bennefit

eventually walls do add up and sometimes its a pointless expense. but yes for the most part it they are cheap and you should always wall 4-6 times in any given game,

At least 4 outer walls and one eco wall is my standard for most games. My teammates believe 1 or 2 are enough leading them to be extremely vulnerable to raids, even from units that arent very good at it

[momuuu]

the cost is negligible vs what they provide. (maybe 700 per layer?) you really only need a few path ways out of your base unless your enemy jumps sides then you can make more gates. The distance traveled can be fixed the way I described in earlier post yet still keep a healthy wall set. more walls also screw up enemy pathing if they are trying to get in. its easy to get through a holes in 2 walls, much more difficult if there are 4 or 5, the hole must be bigger. If i get to siege twice as many walls and make a bigger hole in the same time I have to get through 4 layers I''m going to be very happy. Giving you more time to get your army together or recuperate resources if u went out on something.

I think somewhere between the third and fifth layer, walls stop having benefits that outweigh their negative aspects. If you cant stop someone from running before he tears down 3 layers of walls (unless I guess hes japan, russia or sioux doing a dog box) then youre quite possibly simply terrible at the game. As far as I am concerned, running should be fought by the walls you place after the treaty anyways.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Do you even play treaty very much jerom? Its not so much even from running that is the problem, good players don't really do that, they just steam roll your base. From experience more walls have either saved me or saved another player from the end. For instance on Orinoco this german put up 8 layers of walls... just try getting through that... soon as you lose any momentum they are just rebuilt. If the person is good about wall spam after TR ends then its almost impossible to fight through those areas. Walls are Pretty OP

being terrible is about relativity.... I am actually ranked #46 on the Ladder boards for treaty (although its artificially high because I've beat this Lt colonel a few times who isn't that good so I place myself at a mid captain level) But i also might be better if I started using a Euro civ instead of India. So fighting lesser skilled players sure I wouldn't need those walls, some games no one even touches my walls. But in equal or higher ranked matches you can bet I'm glad I have them.

[momuuu]

Versus someone steamrolling your base, I prefer having less walls over more walls to be entirely honest. In the end those walls will end up obstructing your units and making them walk a large distance like I said before. If you have one, maybe 2 layers of walls around your eco you technically dont really need walls vs heads up player, apart from walls to annoy hussars.

[Cometk]

referring to andes, i only put 3-4 walls on the vulnerable side of my base and 1-2 on the protected side. in 1v1 your base walls are severely overrated. if you have nowhere to produce units from, your 15 layers of walls are useless. i always value more military buildings and good milit building placement over more walls, at least when it comes to your original base. after 40 it's very important to make many walls to control your side and control the areas where you plan to push.

jerom is completely right. you don't want your walls working against you. too many walls confuse you and your units with shitty pathing. give yourself enough space, and make sure your avenues of production are clean/unobstructed!

[fightinfrenchman]

referring to andes, i only put 3-4 walls on the vulnerable side of my base and 1-2 on the protected side. in 1v1 your base walls are severely overrated. if you have nowhere to produce units from, your 15 layers of walls are useless. i always value more military buildings and good milit building placement over more walls, at least when it comes to your original base. after 40 it''s very important to make many walls to control your side and control the areas where you plan to push.

jerom is completely right. you don''t want your walls working against you. too many walls confuse you and your units with shitty pathing. give yourself enough space, and make sure your avenues of production are clean/unobstructed!

Would your opinion change if it was a 3v3 or 4v4 game? With such massive battles the livelihood of a small raid at one of your bases increases significantly.

[Cometk]

well yeah, team game base structure is slightly different. usually 3 to 5 contiguous walls

[glenoidfossa]

This is so retarted

[thebritish]

This is so retarted

its not

[gibson]

Lol someone's a retart

[glenoidfossa]

This is so retarted

its not

Shut it retart

[howlingwolfpaw]

Really odd that in the high level games I see they have many walls as possible (4-5) while still making a FB. 15 layers is absurd.... if you delete pillars and make mass gates there is no obstruction, just extra space. which also gives your army a nice safe place to be for skirms and cannon. I guess when we reach your level blackthought its not as important because most players are below your skill level. And you also tend to put your FB first with the walls behind them.

[momuuu]

Really odd that in the high level games I see they have many walls as possible (4-5) while still making a FB. 15 layers is absurd.... if you delete pillars and make mass gates there is no obstruction, just extra space. which also gives your army a nice safe place to be for skirms and cannon. I guess when we reach your level blackthought its not as important because most players are below your skill level. And you also tend to put your FB first with the walls behind them.

I dont understand what you are exactly trying to say, but in theory it is true that walls don''t obstruct units. However, in laggy circumstances, units can get obstructed by a single barracks and have all kinds of pathing issues. Therefor it is advisable to make as few walls as possible while having enough.

[fightinfrenchman]

Really odd that in the high level games I see they have many walls as possible (4-5) while still making a FB. 15 layers is absurd.... if you delete pillars and make mass gates there is no obstruction, just extra space. which also gives your army a nice safe place to be for skirms and cannon. I guess when we reach your level blackthought its not as important because most players are below your skill level. And you also tend to put your FB first with the walls behind them.

I dont understand what you are exactly trying to say, but in theory it is true that walls dont obstruct units. However, in laggy circumstances, units can get obstructed by a single barracks and have all kinds of pathing issues. Therefor it is advisable to make as few walls as possible while having enough.

I have to agree with you there. There have been many instances in big, laggy games where my units have issues getting through my thick walls
But Ive also seen my teammates lose factories to small gendarme raids due to their thin walls so its a tough call to make.

[howlingwolfpaw]

in laggy circumstances the enemy will have just as much problems as you anyway just trying to get through them. "As few possible while having enough" what does that mean exactly? Even with India that has a bigger than average base foot print with wonders, consulate and sacred fields and a big eco. I can still have several barracks and stables and a castle and have room for 4-5 walls. making sure there is room for units to move around is important though. I would lose a wall to have more room if I needed it, but I finds most civs have just enough room to do it. But I also like walls behind my FB so pathing isn't as an issue.

[mongobillione]

as my grandma always said when i asked her how many times do i have to wash the salad.. she said as many times as its gona be clean.. simply: u need as many walls as u need.. if thats 1-12 who knows

[howlingwolfpaw]

as my grandma always said when i asked her how many times do i have to wash the salad.. she said as many times as its gona be clean.. simply: u need as many walls as u need.. if thats 1-12 who knows

you wash the lettuce to see if it is clean, you cant predict how many walls you will need. There is no need to predict how many times it takes to wash the lettuce. Thats why the guys comment about as many as you can (once you have a good base set up) makes sense.

[Magnam]

I really hate to have more then 4 walls and I'm pretty happy if my opponents make more then 4. It will mean that their troops stand under the walls so my morts can damage not only buildings but troops too and they do pretty much dmg to units who stand under the walls they are shooting. Always nice to snipe cannons with morts ')

[noissance]

Do kynesie style walls to protect economy. After make 5-7 layers outside with some milli buildings in between.