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Brazil Kickass_OP
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11 Jan 2019, 18:31

I raised this doubt after some games of iamturk with Aizamk. I believe they are representations of both poles.
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France Kaiserklein
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11 Jan 2019, 18:38

Aiz probably has as good mechanics as turk (and he'd easily have better mechanics if only he used control groups) so I don't see what you mean
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Sweden tabben
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11 Jan 2019, 18:38

somebody add a poll? @breeze
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*Jeri lames a forward agra vill with nootka*
ramex19 (veni): such nooby shit i will lame you with nats forever
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United States of America dicktator_
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11 Jan 2019, 18:41

I think strat/playing smart is more important in aoe3.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
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Norway iwillspankyou
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11 Jan 2019, 18:50

@kickass forgot one important variable: practice, and a lot if it ;) When that is said, the one thing that makes aoe really exciting and prevailing after all these years, is the need to think strategical. Speed is, of course, important to. A good player have all of this; time to burn, experiences with all civs, and fast typing, and being smart to use that knowledge ;)
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
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France Kaiserklein
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11 Jan 2019, 18:56

dicktator_ wrote:I think strat/playing smart is more important in aoe3.

I think it's more important until you reach higher levels, where mechanics can really make the difference
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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France [Armag] diarouga
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11 Jan 2019, 18:57

Strategy and macro are more important.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
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Brazil Kickass_OP
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11 Jan 2019, 18:59

Kaiserklein wrote:Aiz probably has as good mechanics as turk (and he'd easily have better mechanics if only he used control groups) so I don't see what you mean

I may have been wrong in comparison, but what would be more important?
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Brazil Kickass_OP
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11 Jan 2019, 19:04

I believe that dividing troops into groups is fundamental to good mechanics.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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11 Jan 2019, 19:09

Kickass_OP wrote:I believe that dividing troops into groups is fundamental to good mechanics.

@Aizamk
@somppu
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
Germany amiggo1999
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11 Jan 2019, 19:19

Basic mechanics are quite easy to control, so as long as both players have these, the Strategy is the deciding factor. If however it is a mirror, and both players play the meta, then mechanics (advanced) come into play. A player with advanced mechanics, but a non-meta strategy will lose to a player with basic mechanics but meta strategy.
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France Kaiserklein
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11 Jan 2019, 19:21

Kickass_OP wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Aiz probably has as good mechanics as turk (and he'd easily have better mechanics if only he used control groups) so I don't see what you mean

I may have been wrong in comparison, but what would be more important?


Well, the problem in this game is that you can't always scout. For example spotting a shipment popping from tc is not really possible when your opponent has units, and scouting his unit composition is also often very hard since he will kill your scout before you can see the whole army. Because of that, I think strategy is often quite limited to playing safe and assuming what your opponent does (and since the opponent usually also plays safe you can guess what he's doing). So imo strategy is not as important as people make it, since perfect strategies don't exist in most match ups. It's often rock-paper-scissor with some luck involved.

On the other hand, having perfect mechanics is possible. And we can't even imagine how huge the difference would be if a player was able to never overkill, have a perfect positioning, and always target the right units, while also spending all his resources. So in that regard, mechanics are more important and allow the players to outplay their opponents harder.

The reason why some people say strats are more important is mostly because it's easier to outplay with decisions at our (very imperfect) level. Since some people (like iamturk) basically don't adapt and take wrong decisions, it's easy to outplay them and win regardless of mechanics.
If you want, knowing how to adapt to x or y situations is a bit like learning maths formulas by heart, while perfect mechanics is like being able to calculate anything like a computer, which is much harder.
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Italy Garja
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11 Jan 2019, 19:50

You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics. So the question doesnt make much sense.
I suppose by IQ you mean strategic decisions. Well a strategic decision can have a bigger impact than one micro move but overall if your mechanics are bad you cant even apply some strategic ideas. The reading of the game is also influenced by your mechanics. If you micro sucks you will be more scared to show the army in marginal situations where in fact you are supposed to force action.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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11 Jan 2019, 19:52

Garja wrote:You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics.

What? High IQ doesn't mean you're a superior human being bro.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
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11 Jan 2019, 20:01

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics.

What? High IQ doesn't mean you're a superior human being bro.

Then we need a new metric for superiority. For garja high iq just doesnt do it.
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France bwinner1
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11 Jan 2019, 20:10

Poor @iamturk no one even defend you when you are considered as the oposite of IQ lmao
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France flontier
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11 Jan 2019, 20:23

Well either you are low IQ because you have good mechanic, either you are a nerd because you have good strat.
Choose your side !
You also have the otto player hum hum.
Turkey iamturk
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11 Jan 2019, 20:35

@Garja You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics.

agree with this.
On one hand mechanics means how u thinking fast. Thats part of the IQ. The games Aizamk win against me he knows what to do better and he knows better builds. Thats experience. Since hes probably 10+ years player and im only 3 years.

Experience and having more knowledge is not about IQ.
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Canada Mitoe
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11 Jan 2019, 20:55

They are both important.

Better mechanics unlock better strategies, and better strategies require better mechanics. For example: it may be best to FF with Spain into pretty much everything, but that doesn’t mean you will always win. Mechanics can allow you to better defend your base against a rush while you age by being able to fight more effectively with vills, not overkilling with TC/outpost/explorer, etc. Thereby allowing you to make better use of what is arguably the optimal strategy in that situation. Without those mechanics, you may have to commit to a different build order if you want to beat certain all in rushes.

There are other factors too—as Garja mentioned if you have poor mechanics you may be less willing to use your troops actively on the map. Not only because it costs APM, but also because it requires good mechanics to make the most of those units. If you have good mechanics you naturally gain experience with unit compositions that benefit from better micro, such as skirm/goon, etc, and therefore get better trades and take fights you otherwise wouldn’t. You have a better understanding of the limitations of the game and that will impact your strategic decisions as well. At the same time, if you have great mechanics but little understanding of strategy, you will often lose to players of equal or maybe even slightly worse mechanical skill that yourself, because they will always be taking advantage of the weaknesses in your strategy.

To conclude, you really need both if you want to be successful. You can only get so far with one or the other, and at the end of the day both strategy and mechanics will compliment each other a lot more if you put effort into both than if you discard one and focus on the other.
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Armenia Sargsyan
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11 Jan 2019, 20:57

Garja wrote:You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics.

This is so wrong. Its like saying iq = balance = riding a bike, so iq equals to riding a bike
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Kiribati SirCallen
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11 Jan 2019, 21:00

Neither; faith.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1676

11 Jan 2019, 21:05

You could also argue knowing how to make improvements mechanically comes from not being a muppet in the brain. It's a process you can figure out and there's probably a base line somewhere around PR 32 mechanically that anyone can reach if they wanted to.

But these threads always seem to descend into people arguing that the 18th ranked mechanical player beat the 4th ranked mechanical player in a match, therefore strategy is the most important! There is no substance to the argument and it's used every time and no one bats an eyelid. I mean look at the premise of the thread:
I raised this doubt after some games of iamturk with Aizamk. I believe they are representations of both poles.

No they're not? Almost the exact opposite of what you said is true.
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No Flag ovi12
Jaeger
Posts: 4288

11 Jan 2019, 21:12

Boneng got really really far with just strategy and seemingly terrible mechanics, at least terrible macro lol.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Tuvalu gibson
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Posts: 8629
Location: USA

11 Jan 2019, 21:22

Big brain gamers unite!
Netherlands momuuu
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Posts: 14237
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11 Jan 2019, 21:43

WickedCossack wrote:You could also argue knowing how to make improvements mechanically comes from not being a muppet in the brain. It's a process you can figure out and there's probably a base line somewhere around PR 32 mechanically that anyone can reach if they wanted to.

I have seen some muppet brain players that have shooter mechanics that outdo anyone in this entire community.

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