8x

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01 Aug 2020, 20:16

what is the logic of yabusame having 8x against artillery?
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01 Aug 2020, 20:24

...because they counter artillery?
https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?p=441858#p441857
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France Aykin Haraka
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01 Aug 2020, 20:29

xD
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01 Aug 2020, 20:30

dansil92 wrote:...because they counter artillery?


Not
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01 Aug 2020, 20:31

Noobs... noobs everywhere....
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01 Aug 2020, 20:34

they counter church priest
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01 Aug 2020, 20:49

The full explanation is approximately thus:
Japan doesnt have a true culverin unit in age 3, as flaming arrows dont gain a multiplier against other artillery until the honoured upgrade is researched (age iv). They're still not phenomenal anti-art then either but its something. To compensate, their dragoon unit has an extremely large multiplier against artillery and long range. It's important from a design perspective that yabusame are quite mediocre against cavalry, since yumi are so powerful- if yabusame were as powerful as yumi are then japan wouldn't have any real weaknesses. Thus, yabusame have high range resist, great range, a very large amount of damage to artillery, kind-of-ok vs cav and expensive, to act as a way to cover yumi and ashi in fortress age against artillery, but losing relevance later on, if the game goes late
https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?p=441858#p441857
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Italy Garja
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01 Aug 2020, 21:14

because its ranged damage and artillery has 75%rr. Rifle riders also have x6 or something.
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02 Aug 2020, 01:17

go home and cry u donkey
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02 Aug 2020, 10:06

SirCallen wrote: because they have 8 atk.
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03 Aug 2020, 03:18

Yabusame in history had contests where they would shoot dogs that were moving in pens with a bow and arrow. Hence proved, artillery are dogs
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03 Aug 2020, 03:44

TNT333 wrote:Yabusame in history had contests where they would shoot dogs that were moving in pens with a bow and arrow. Hence proved, artillery are dogs

Boy i sure do miss 45 seconds ago when i dididn't know this
https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?p=441858#p441857
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03 Aug 2020, 10:25

yeah that seems cruel
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03 Aug 2020, 12:44

Holy shit
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03 Aug 2020, 15:27

TNT333 wrote:Yabusame in history had contests where they would shoot dogs that were moving in pens with a bow and arrow. Hence proved, artillery are dogs

as a japanese player i propose the following: ban yabusame, remove them from the game
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03 Aug 2020, 19:52

harcha wrote:
TNT333 wrote:Yabusame in history had contests where they would shoot dogs that were moving in pens with a bow and arrow. Hence proved, artillery are dogs

as a japanese player i propose the following: ban yabusame, remove them from the game


sure.
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05 Aug 2020, 06:23

I'm more puzzled about rifle riders. That thing is a ranged heavy cav unit with a x3 multiplier against heavy infantry. And x3 against cav. Also x6 against arty. Oh and like x7 against ships. And the icing of the cake is that, for whatever reason, they fire as fast as lbs - faster than any other ranged cav unit in the game. They are a culv/goon/skirm - all in one - that is supposed to get countered by... goons and skirms. If light cav wasn't so meta, rifle riders would be broken af.
And the weird thing is, Sioux already have both skirms and goons, and both work well enough. So, even though rrs are very very strong and confusing, they also are not any more useful than brs or wakinas. Not saying they are useless, but they are very situational.

Yabusames, in the other hand, do sorta make sense - they are solely supposed to be a goon-culv mix, Japs technically having neither of those two.
What makes no sense to me are Flaming arrows. Why would devs give them a bonus vs arty? By doing that not only Yabusames are rendered useless, but you give Japs a strongass falconet/culv hybrid in age 4, which also happens to be cheaper than both culvs and falconets. As if Japs weren't broken enough in age 4. Fuck Japan, tbh.

I really dislike that there are unique units in the game that are 100% useless and others that are 100% broken. Hey why even give a Tashunkes a purpose when all you need as Sioux is lame those bow riders? Why ever use Yabusames or samurais when you have ashis? Etc
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05 Aug 2020, 15:43

i wouldn't stress about flamings too much, they die from 2 falc shots but take 3 shots to kill falcs. the only thing that is broken about them is that you can ship them twice
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05 Aug 2020, 16:00

Well you kinda need a long range counter to art otherwise you get destroyed by cannons lategame
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05 Aug 2020, 18:13

harcha wrote:i wouldn't stress about flamings too much, they die from 2 falc shots but take 3 shots to kill falcs. the only thing that is broken about them is that you can ship them twice

Honored flaming arrows die from 2 shots, and take 2 shots to kill field guns. And have two extra range. And you don't have to "unload" them because they fire automatically - so, unlike falconets, you can actually use them to micro enemy units (including the falconets/field guns). So, unless you are playing against corporals, any decent Jap player should kill all your cannons before they can even fire a shot against his flaming arrows.
Last but not least, they are cheaper. Oh, and yes, you can get a bunch of them from the HC and they will spam right in the battlefield, lol.
Face it, they are OP as fuck. Flaming arrows should not have that ridiculous bonus vs arty when you upgrade them, and should have range less than falconets too.
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05 Aug 2020, 18:17

Hazza54321 wrote:Well you kinda need a long range counter to art otherwise you get destroyed by cannons lategame

Jap players can get culverins from dutch consulate if they need them that much (but as long as they have flaming arrows, they really don't lol). Besides, making Japan slightly more vulnerable at late game shouldn't make that much of a difference for them.
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05 Aug 2020, 18:26

Good ol Ivan wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Well you kinda need a long range counter to art otherwise you get destroyed by cannons lategame

Jap players can get culverins from dutch consulate if they need them that much (but as long as they have flaming arrows, they really don't lol). Besides, making Japan slightly more vulnerable at late game shouldn't make that much of a difference for them.

culvs from consulate is a one time solution. Arrows have very low range compared to culverins so the lack of anti art lategame still applies
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05 Aug 2020, 18:39

Hazza54321 wrote:
Good ol Ivan wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Well you kinda need a long range counter to art otherwise you get destroyed by cannons lategame

Jap players can get culverins from dutch consulate if they need them that much (but as long as they have flaming arrows, they really don't lol). Besides, making Japan slightly more vulnerable at late game shouldn't make that much of a difference for them.

culvs from consulate is a one time solution. Arrows have very low range compared to culverins so the lack of anti art lategame still applies

noo this will totally put my heckin Japerinos on the same level as Dutchies on late game!!1! Don't you dare to suggest my annoying ass civ could work in any way without being completely broken!!1!
Iros on late game get countered by cuirrs, Azzies by skirms. Japs by cannons?
Yeah - not a big deal. Besides, it's not like Japs won't have any option against arty. I insist, they can make culvs in the consulate, and when they can not, they can make yabusames (just make 20 of them and make them run into the enemy cannons, they should be able to kill some). Actually, even with a small nerf, Flaming arrows will still be more cost effective than falconets, and more or less should still be able to beat them lol.
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05 Aug 2020, 21:05

Good ol Ivan wrote:
harcha wrote:i wouldn't stress about flamings too much, they die from 2 falc shots but take 3 shots to kill falcs. the only thing that is broken about them is that you can ship them twice

Honored flaming arrows die from 2 shots, and take 2 shots to kill field guns. And have two extra range. And you don't have to "unload" them because they fire automatically - so, unlike falconets, you can actually use them to micro enemy units (including the falconets/field guns). So, unless you are playing against corporals, any decent Jap player should kill all your cannons before they can even fire a shot against his flaming arrows.
Last but not least, they are cheaper. Oh, and yes, you can get a bunch of them from the HC and they will spam right in the battlefield, lol.
Face it, they are OP as fuck. Flaming arrows should not have that ridiculous bonus vs arty when you upgrade them, and should have range less than falconets too.

if you got to age 4 against japan you lost anyway so who cares.
i know that they have their share of upsides but they are also not exactly good against infantry.
the point i was making is that FA is not the problem with japan. if you hate japan, call out the things that are bad - shipping artillery twice and in the middle of battlefield. then i will agree.
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05 Aug 2020, 21:40

harcha wrote:if you got to age 4 against japan you lost anyway so who cares.

You approached the point. Trying looking right, look left. Maybe it's down there? Maybe it's even stuck in your hair. Come on, you are sooo close, I'm pretty sure you can reach it by yourself, I'm not helping. So, without further, ado:
"lol l2p"

harcha wrote:i know that they have their share of upsides but they are also not exactly good against infantry

Depends. They do an ok job countering ranged infantry. Not that it matters, point is I don't think they should counter arty.

harcha wrote:the point i was making is that FA is not the problem with japan. if you hate japan, call out the things that are bad - shipping artillery twice and in the middle of battlefield. then i will agree.

Why not both?
I agree that Jap age 4 shipments should be nerfed as well. Since they can send pretty much any unit shipment twice, it'd make sense if their unit shipments were weaker than those of other civs. 4 FAs is ridiculous, it should be 3.

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