Strong/Weak Ratio

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Brazil macacoalbino
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Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by macacoalbino »

Hey guys
I'm wondering if someone knows whats the math behind Strong/Weak Ratio in Elo page...
I understand it as a civ rating that accounts for the difference between you win rate with that civ compared to your overall (all civs) win rate and global (all players) win rate with that civ.

I just wonder what's the function that defines it.... does anyone know it? :chinese:

@momuuu
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

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Post by HUMMAN »

Dutch needs buff.
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India _RDX_
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by _RDX_ »

HUMMAN wrote:Dutch needs buff.

Why don't you post this here? http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=3423

Also, Dutch has been given a lot of buff in EP. Check it, before you post things.
oranges.
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

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Post by HUMMAN »

I read jerom and i thought it may help :p
Just trolling
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by Gendarme »

Dutch needs buff.
Pay more attention to detail.
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India _RDX_
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by _RDX_ »

HUMMAN wrote:I read jerom and i thought it may help :p
Just trolling

:uglylol: :uglylol: :uglylol:
oranges.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by pecelot »

Can you link the part you're talking about? What radio do you have in mind?
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by lemmings121 »

macacoalbino wrote:Hey guys
I'm wondering if someone knows whats the math behind Strong/Weak Ratio in Elo page...
I understand it as a civ rating that accounts for the difference between you win rate with that civ compared to your overall (all civs) win rate and global (all players) win rate with that civ.

I just wonder what's the function that defines it.... does anyone know it? :chinese:

@momuuu


wait what?
Its pr thats takes into account civ choices and its a "secret" what are the rates of each civ, just internal eso data afaik....

Elo is just math on players ratings

How ratings are calculated
We are using simplified "Elo rating" system based on Age of Empires II in MSN Gaming Zone.
We calculate rating as follows:

ΔR: difference value of rating, each winner/loser gains/loses
RW: winner's current rating (in team, sum of team's rating)
RL: loser's current rating (in team, sum of team's rating)
N: number of players
ΔR = 16 + (RL - RW) x 2 / N x (16 / 400) if (ΔR > 31) ΔR = 31; if (ΔR < 1) ΔR = 1;
Example:
1vs1
winner: 1700; loser: 1600
↓ ΔR = 16 + (1600 - 1700) x (16 / 400) = 12
winner: 1712, loser: 1588
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Germany aligator92
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by aligator92 »

He is talking about the table on the bottom
http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... m=civtable
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by Kaiserklein »

They somehow calculate that by comparing the player's win/loss ratio with a given civ to the average win/loss ratio with that civ. However I fail to see the formula behind it, but anyway they say it's a "test" so I wouldn't trust that too much
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by momuuu »

We (mostly macaco) concluded that it somehow compared the players winrate with that civ compared to both his own winrate and the average winrate with that civ.

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... m=civtable
Soldier has a lot of data, maybe someone can find out what the formula is. Ratio strongly implies theyre dividing something but I cant figure out what.
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by deleted_user0 »

seems like a relation between the winrate of that player vs the global winrate for that civ and the average winrate of that player with all civs.
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by momuuu »

But what is the mathematics behind it?

Piros page reveals its quite possibly not so straightforward: http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... m=civtable
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by Hazza54321 »

The top 3 civ needs buff
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by lemmings121 »

ok i'm stupid.
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

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Post by VinyanyĂ©rĂ« »

The equation is close to:

ratio = player - global - (0.5 * player_total - 25)
duck
:mds:
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by aligator92 »

Vinyanenya wrote:The equation is close to:

ratio = player - global - (0.5 * player_total - 25)

Wow. Formula works perfectly with my stats
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by momuuu »

That seems to be it. It doesn't really end up making sense to me.

I think it'd have been cool if they had gathered the data for each civ and the elo difference when playing with that civ. The elo should represent your overall skill but better, and then you can figure out how well you do with a certain civ compared to how well you are expected to do based on your elo (determined for all civs you play). That'd actually have been cool.
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by GuardSoldier »

Nice. How did you come up with that? Or did you know it already?
Since ratio = player - global - (0.5 * player_total - 25) = player - global - 0.5* (player_total - 50), the formula itself is pretty clear.
The 0.5* is basically just a multiplier, that can - theoretically - be chosen randomly, or is there a reason for it to be exactly 0.5?

Also why would you ever call something ratio, that doesn't contain any division?
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by deleted_user0 »

Jerom wrote:That seems to be it. It doesn't really end up making sense to me.

I think it'd have been cool if they had gathered the data for each civ and the elo difference when playing with that civ. The elo should represent your overall skill but better, and then you can figure out how well you do with a certain civ compared to how well you are expected to do based on your elo (determined for all civs you play). That'd actually have been cool.


Lol 18k only spain XD i wonder if he has a smurf to try new civs. Does he even know you can make new homecities? So many questions, and they will never be answered because the man is on fire, aint nobody got time for that.
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by macacoalbino »

@momuuu in the end, assuming short term (the global stat wont change)
The first variable will influence your civ rating 2/3 while the second will influence by 1/3.
The numbers are adjusted to float around 0 (in the range -50 / +50) instead of 50 (in the range 0 / 100)
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

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Post by aligator92 »

Now there is only one question left...Why are you so bad with otto?
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by macacoalbino »

lmao
I honestly have no idea. I just pick them once in a blue moon. And I think those stats include the time I tried doing Fast Revolt everygame no matter if 10min NR or supremacy lol
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by GuardSoldier »

macacoalbino wrote:@momuuu in the end, assuming short term (the global stat wont change)
The first variable will influence your civ rating 2/3 while the second will influence by 1/3.
The numbers are adjusted to float around 0 (in the range -50 / +50) instead of 50 (in the range 0 / 100)
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!


I hope I understood your post correctly, and you refer to player with "first variable" and to player_total with "second variable" and you assume global is a constant.
ratio = player - global - (0.5 * player_total - 25) = player - global - 0.5 * player_total + 25

Let's say, x is added to player (where x is a rational number and the other variables are constant):
ratio_2 = (player + x) - global - 0.5 * player_total + 25 = ratio + x

Now the same for player_total:
ratio_3 = player - global - 0.5 * (player_total + x) + 25 = player - global - 0.5 * player_total - 0.5 * x = ratio - 0.5 * x

Compare the influence of the variable player with the influence of the player_total variable:
influence_of_player / influence_of_player_total = x / (- 0.5 * x) = -2 -> influence_of_player = -2 * influence_of_player_total

If ratio is only influenced by player_total and player, |influence_of_player_total| + |influence_of_player| = 3 * influence_of_player_total corresponds to 100%. Hence, the influence of player_total is 1/3 and the influence of player 2/3. Your statement is correct.


But what do you mean with "the numbers are adjusted to float around 0 (in the range -50 / + 50)?
For example, if a player won 100% of the games with a civ, that has a global rating of about 40.00 and the player wins on average 50% of his games, then ratio = player - global - (0.5 * player_total - 25) = 100.00 - 40.00 - (0.5*50 - 25) = 100.00 - 40.00 - 0.00 = 60.00 > 50.
Therefore, your second statement is wrong.

Or did I missunderstand you?
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Re: Strong/Weak Ratio

Post by momuuu »

In the end it seems quite meaningless, the ratio itself that is. There could've been methods where you can really determine what civs you play best.

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