ESO Community challenge

[Sub0Winters]

Hello Everyone,

I have been a part of this community now for a couple months and have been observing the interactions among its members ever since. I wanted to share some of my thoughts and then offer a challenge that would help encourage healing and forgiveness.

First of all, the major thing i have noticed is flaming and toxicity. Children act all big and tough when they are behind a computer and dont have deal with the repercussions of what they say but most of the members of this community are adults. I have been embarrassed for some of the things that people have said on this forums and often wonder if this is how they act in the real world. Do they have bent up anger they just need to release somewhere? Whatever the answer is, it is wrong, and it is the major root of division and toxicity on this forum. If people can start talking and acting like adults on here, I think this place would be more welcoming and encourage growth. All of the rest of my observations stem from this problem.

Secondly, There seems to be some disconnect between leadership and vocal members of the forums. Let us keep in mind that the leadership team does not do this for pay and volunteer their time to try to grow and create direction for the site. Unless you want to pay them money, then i don't think you can expect perfection. When an adult has an issue with someone else or a decision is made, you approach that person and discuss the issue then take it to higher authority if it isn't resolved. If that doesn't resolve the issue you take it to the next authority which is the greater community body. If you have a problem with someone talk to them....if that doesn't work talk to leadership team...if that doesn't work make a civil post on the forums for the community to discuss.

Thirdly....cheating. There have been several people recently who have been caught cheating. I find it peculiar how these cases of cheating have been handled differently but that is another topic in itself. My point of bringing this up is that these are only a few cases. Everyone is on a cheaterphobia right now and so many accusations of cheating are now flying everywhere. Instead of flaming people for cheating, play them and record it and catch them doing it so we can create a list of people who cannot participate in tournies and who to avoid in game. Don't let these few people ruin your experience and ruin the trust within the community.

Finally, you are all here because you want to be here. None of us are forced to be here. If you don't want to be a positive member of the community and help it grow and create a fun environment, you have no place here. Go to /sp/ or reddit or somewhere else where you can anonymously shit post.

Challenge: Quit acting like children, and start acting like the adults you are. Talk with respect and civilly. make this a happy place to come and post rather than a toxic place.

Thank you for those of you who read my post. :)

Have a wonderful day!

SubZeroWinters

[momuuu]

ez

[Sub0Winters]

I mean i think it is an ez concept too @momuuu haha

[rsy]

I totally agree with sub0 here. We really need to calm ourselves down a few notches at times

[Sub0Winters]

Offtopic......but @rsy.....your next post is #1000....Make it special. hahaha

[momuuu]

No I'm being a kid. First to fail the challenge PogChamp

Whats the point of being an adult on esoc? Trolls can do whatever they please, and 1/50 threads is actually a serious discussion. Try to discuss how the game works and garja comes in trolling (although usually its a decent discussion). Give criticism about ep or something and everyone starts calling you negative and mean, even if you try to make some points about how things work. If you try to discuss off topic then spanky and legend and some others will come in trolling, and the rest of the forum is just "fun" threads by trolls.

I tried being a 'grown up' but unfortunately the most grown up thing to do is to not waste your time on shit you don't like. And honestly, I don't even see how you could enjoy being grown up on esoc, having serious discussion, when every discussion just becomes a bunch of people that either purposely troll or just can't understand a first thing about whatever they are discussing (for some I haven't figured that out yet, if they're trolls or just stupid). Even if you try to, you'll spend hours digging through piles of shit for one "gem" (as in, something that gives a mediocre amount of satisfaction reading, you can just go play games or read a book instead really). The culture of ESOC gives serious people two choices: Either you give up being an active, serious, contributing member or you join the trolls.

[momuuu]

The truth is that people would hate you if you didn't lie to them.

[Kaiserklein]

you'll spend hours digging through piles of shit for one "gem"

It's not like by complaining all the time about everything, and doing nothing yourself, you're improving the situation...

Also it feels like you call everyone trolls, how are iwillspankyou and garja trolls?? You gotta be trolling yourself here

[NekoBerk]

This is like the ideal of a perfect goverment system, it looks nice on paper but it is difficult to execute it and make it work

[gamevideo113]

Challenge: Quit acting like children, and start acting like the adults you are. Talk with respect and civilly. make this a happy place to come and post rather than a toxic place.

But muh drama

[momuuu]

you'll spend hours digging through piles of shit for one "gem"

It's not like by complaining all the time about everything, and doing nothing yourself, you're improving the situation...

Improving the situation is literally impossible. I tried it, I really did. When I was a mod, I'd actively lobby for increased post standards, and for less obedience towards trolling. Then later on I argued for radical changes to set a change of culture into motion: One that would stop the constructive people from giving up and the trolls from flourishing rather than what mostly ended up happening. I was called negative, silly, mean or ignored and in the end it was impossible to get any opinion past the leaders of esoc. Even if you'd convince everybody that relentless trolling was a bad thing for the community and deserved a ban, they'd find a way to revise to rules to suddenly unban someone "because permanent bans should only last 3 months". I really tried, I tried hard for multiple years. It didn't work, I gave up being constructive, the amount of posts I made since I gave up dropped to about 1/6th of what it used to be and I've not really tried to make many serious posts anymore. The few times I have outed criticism or tried to invoke discussion, I was all in all very disappointed (either you make a large post and get maybe 8 replies or if you have any ideas on how things should be like you get flamed for not being a positive sunflower). If you know how this state of esoc can be changed, then tell me and I'll put in all the effort I could because I love having a place to actually discuss this game without consistent trolling. But I don't see how this will ever improve without radical changes to the entire site and its management. And I don't see how the current management will ever achieve anything.

[Sub0Winters]

No I'm being a kid. First to fail the challenge PogChamp

Whats the point of being an adult on esoc? Trolls can do whatever they please, and 1/50 threads is actually a serious discussion. Try to discuss how the game works and garja comes in trolling (although usually its a decent discussion). Give criticism about ep or something and everyone starts calling you negative and mean, even if you try to make some points about how things work. If you try to discuss off topic then spanky and legend and some others will come in trolling, and the rest of the forum is just "fun" threads by trolls.

I tried being a 'grown up' but unfortunately the most grown up thing to do is to not waste your time on shit you don't like. And honestly, I don't even see how you could enjoy being grown up on esoc, having serious discussion, when every discussion just becomes a bunch of people that either purposely troll or just can't understand a first thing about whatever they are discussing (for some I haven't figured that out yet, if they're trolls or just stupid). Even if you try to, you'll spend hours digging through piles of shit for one "gem" (as in, something that gives a mediocre amount of satisfaction reading, you can just go play games or read a book instead really). The culture of ESOC gives serious people two choices: Either you give up being an active, serious, contributing member or you join the trolls.

So lets use this post as an example then.

First of all, why are you calling out one specific person? It doesnt matter if you think Garja trolls or not, by posting about him specifically you are creating flame and will turn this thread into a flame war just by doing that. I think the funniest part is you then give him a backwards compliment by saying it is a decent discussion. So if it is a decent discussion then what is the problem or was this just a chance to take a stab at Garja?

I think you have more options than two. You are thinking in black and white when the world is colorful. You dont have to be serious on the forums, but there is a difference between having fun and flaming/causing destruction within the community. Instead of joining the people who you loath for flaming and being toxic, why not help make a community where people who do that stuff are not welcomed? By giving into them, you are no better than them. x-D

[momuuu]

Because it's depressing to try to help the community. Been there, done that.

[Sub0Winters]

you'll spend hours digging through piles of shit for one "gem"

It's not like by complaining all the time about everything, and doing nothing yourself, you're improving the situation...

Improving the situation is literally impossible. I tried it, I really did. When I was a mod, I'd actively lobby for increased post standards, and for less obedience towards trolling. Then later on I argued for radical changes to set a change of culture into motion: One that would stop the constructive people from giving up and the trolls from flourishing rather than what mostly ended up happening. I was called negative, silly, mean or ignored and in the end it was impossible to get any opinion past the leaders of esoc. Even if you'd convince everybody that relentless trolling was a bad thing for the community and deserved a ban, they'd find a way to revise to rules to suddenly unban someone "because permanent bans should only last 3 months". I really tried, I tried hard for multiple years. It didn't work, I gave up being constructive, the amount of posts I made since I gave up dropped to about 1/6th of what it used to be and I've not really tried to make many serious posts anymore. The few times I have outed criticism or tried to invoke discussion, I was all in all very disappointed (either you make a large post and get maybe 8 replies or if you have any ideas on how things should be like you get flamed for not being a positive sunflower). If you know how this state of esoc can be changed, then tell me and I'll put in all the effort I could because I love having a place to actually discuss this game without consistent trolling. But I don't see how this will ever improve without radical changes to the entire site and its management. And I don't see how the current management will ever achieve anything.

sorry my previous post was before i read this one. This is very interesting. I didnt know your back story of being a mod etc. So is this something we should try to take to the leadership? I dont even know who to take it to? That flaming and rudeness towards others should result in more bans until we can create the productive and positive envirorment that ESOC should be?

[gibson]

I guess jeroms lived long enough to see himself becoming the villain

[tedere12]

Bailbondsh sh

[dietschlander]

Because it's depressing to try to help the community. Been there, done that.

Yea, stop doing that pls, your current help is kinda got souer and bitter

[benj89]

somehow I almost never assume that people here troll (from my undertanding= not being genuine, wanting to annoy people). I just see these posts as a person trying to be funny and sometimes it is, nothing more than that. Taking the people Jerom mentioned, to me they don't troll, just people having different opinions/ways of behaving than yours, which is partly what I find interesting about reading ESOC. As for people who post to trigger certain members, well to me that's often justified (i.e garja sometimes asks for it). From an early age, I always found that mocking people was a powerful tool to make them grow (goes both ways), but I digress.
Call me naive, but to me lejend is a christian, djigit ordered some candy bars last week and so on. Regarding the ear and cheadar, when I see how committed they are with their videos/podcast/streams etc, I again believe that most of their posts are genuine but I could be completely wrong. Even the posts regarding their pool chemicals, I don't think there are bad intentions behind and believe that could be a topic these guys are actually discussing irl for fun (somehow).
Could it be that many people you could consider as troll are just different?
Quick example, I remember you jumping on conclusions really quick on the gun thread, I could have considered you a "troll" but just told myself alright this dude just has a complete different perspective than mine on the topic, our experience with life differs and I moved on.

While I do understand where Jerom is coming from, that might be something to consider. And if ear/cheadar do annoying things to the staff that we don't know about, just make these public and that would help everyone forming a better opinion about the situation. I've always thought there was an issue regarding transparence in ESOC (most likely comes from the leadership) which led to unnecessary drama. I'm reading this "you guys have no idea what they do in the background" nonsense since more than a year already. Being a staff member doesn't mean you can't publicly express your frustrations, no shareholders are involved, it's fine.

To me the real toxic thing here would be kids acting tough indeed (thinking about sirmusket), but reflecting on it I was more or less the same arrogant nerd at that age and besides temporary bans/ignoring/mocking them I don't think much can be done about it. However I do believe there should be 0 tolerance with cheating.

Lastly, I find that most staff members, at least from what I can see and I'm sure there is a lot going on in the background, are doing an incredible jobs with ESOC including bramboy, so that would be a sad thing to see any of these guys leave.

[PeachTree]

I haven't been on here much but from that locked thread, I saw a great deal of negativity. May peace be with us all.

[gibson]

I haven't been on here much but from that locked thread, I saw a great deal of negativity. May peace be with us all.

[PeachTree]

Is what everyone needs ^

[edeholland]

While I do understand where Jerom is coming from, that might be something to consider. And if ear/cheadar do annoying things to the staff that we don't know about, just make these public and that would help everyone forming a better opinion about the situation. I've always thought there was an issue regarding transparence in ESOC (most likely comes from the leadership) which led to unnecessary drama. I'm reading this "you guys have no idea what they do in the background" nonsense since more than a year already. Being a staff member doesn't mean you can't publicly express your frustrations, no shareholders are involved, it's fine.

I think that transparency went away when ESOC became more of a business than a community.

[TheInvincibleJannisary]

@Sub0Winters
You should take time to learn about AOE3 culture and online gaming culture in general.

[Mitoe]

I think that transparency went away when ESOC became more of a business than a community.

I don’t understand how we’re not transparent? This is something I see people say a lot, and I just don’t understand it I guess, but if it really is a problem I want to understand it so that we can fix it.

I also still think we’re more of a community than anything else.

[P i k i l i c]

Sure, topics about AoE III strategy are rarer now because frequently asked questions, help for beginners, most builds and match-ups have already been covered several times. So there is more place for drama and off-topic discussions, which are often not worth reading. Mods have a lot of job to do on ESOC and they take it on their free time. But if you're not a mod, you don't have to check the forum several times a day. Yes behaving as an adult is simply the key. If you criticize people, do it with arguments and try not to hurt them. Also don't forget that is a forum about a videogame and shouldn't take too much importance in your life