Is creeping treasures cheating?

[Aizamk]

Just because the iro explorer can use doesnt mean it has to be banned. One can also consider this bug in balancing the game. Similairly, monitors could be given a 1.5 ROF and nerfed damage accordingly, which makes the bug ineffective for them.

Btw, isn't crackshotting treasure guardians from TWC civs bug abuse too?

... ?

[momuuu]

sigh. If only people could think for themselves instead of endlessly repeating what they heard their neighboor say. So far literally every argument with regards to the bug gameplay wise has been countered by diarouga, and it should be abundantly clear by now that this is not obviously a cheat, yet people still act as if it's funny if people say it's a reasonable feature because they're so stuck in their own bubble. God gave each and every one of us a brain, and most of us have the ability to use that brain. It'd be a sin to blatantly ignore that what god gifted you.

[momuuu]

Just because the iro explorer can use doesnt mean it has to be banned. One can also consider this bug in balancing the game. Similairly, monitors could be given a 1.5 ROF and nerfed damage accordingly, which makes the bug ineffective for them.

Btw, isn't crackshotting treasure guardians from TWC civs bug abuse too?

... ?

I mean, they're not treasure guardians anymore right? They're not actually guarding a treasure. I've always felt like it was very odd that you could do that, because converting them makes them become actual units of you whereas treasure guardians are always units of mother nature. I wouldn't say it's 100% clear whether or not this is intended behaviour or simply lazy coding.

[Kaiserklein]

@Diarouga I think anyone with more than 100 apm could show how broken the iro warchief could get. You can still use the crackshot after the glitch.
I don't want to back my pets because of someone using a glitch.
Explorers don't have low dps with that kind of ROF.

@momuuu they still have the treasure guardian tag. Otherwise, it would mean explorers wouldn't have a multiplier vs them/wouldn't be able to crackshoot them. And warchief civs would then be insanely broken in age 1.

[Aizamk]

Just because the iro explorer can use doesnt mean it has to be banned. One can also consider this bug in balancing the game. Similairly, monitors could be given a 1.5 ROF and nerfed damage accordingly, which makes the bug ineffective for them.

Btw, isn't crackshotting treasure guardians from TWC civs bug abuse too?

... ?

I mean, they're not treasure guardians anymore right? They're not actually guarding a treasure. I've always felt like it was very odd that you could do that, because converting them makes them become actual units of you whereas treasure guardians are always units of mother nature. I wouldn't say it's 100% clear whether or not this is intended behaviour or simply lazy coding.

When you consider that there was a patch that reduced the siege damage of converted guardians and they could have easily "fixed" this at the same time, I would say it's very much intended behaviour from the devs.

EDIT: Besides, I was mainly wondering how a 1.5 ROF monitor makes sense even if balanced with lower damage output.

[[Armag] diarouga]

@Diarouga I think anyone with more than 100 apm could show how broken the iro warchief could get. You can still use the crackshot after the glitch.
I don't want to back my pets because of someone using a glitch.
Explorers don't have low dps with that kind of ROF.

@momuuu they still have the treasure guardian tag. Otherwise, it would mean explorers wouldn't have a multiplier vs them/wouldn't be able to crackshoot them. And warchief civs would then be insanely broken in age 1.

Well I don't want my opponent to be able to escape because of the pull trick, nor to be able to kill guardians without losing HPs. What you want doesn't really matter. Besides, as I stated previously, you can't shoot too fast in real games, so if you micro the WC (which means that you don't micro your other units meanwhile) you'll at best get 1 ROF, which isn't really a big deal.

Again, if it is really an issue (which I don't think it is), it is also possible to ban the use of this glitch against your opponent's units while allowing it vs treasure guardians.

[momuuu]

Show hidden quotes

Just because the iro explorer can use doesnt mean it has to be banned. One can also consider this bug in balancing the game. Similairly, monitors could be given a 1.5 ROF and nerfed damage accordingly, which makes the bug ineffective for them.

Btw, isn't crackshotting treasure guardians from TWC civs bug abuse too?

... ?

I mean, they're not treasure guardians anymore right? They're not actually guarding a treasure. I've always felt like it was very odd that you could do that, because converting them makes them become actual units of you whereas treasure guardians are always units of mother nature. I wouldn't say it's 100% clear whether or not this is intended behaviour or simply lazy coding.

When you consider that there was a patch that reduced the siege damage of converted guardians and they could have easily "fixed" this at the same time, I would say it's very much intended behaviour from the devs.

EDIT: Besides, I was mainly wondering how a 1.5 ROF monitor makes sense even if balanced with lower damage output.

That'd mean the trick doesn't actually reduce its damage by as much? After all the monitor fires very slowly with reasonable damage normally, and once you use the trick it'll fire quickly with reasonable damage. If it were to have lower damage, the effective dps achieved by using this trick would be lower, while it's effective dps without the trick would be preserved if the ROF was increased.

Btw in that patch it also could've been the devs considered the bug a cool bug and left it in.

[deleted_user0]

sigh. If only people could think for themselves instead of endlessly repeating what they heard their neighboor say. So far literally every argument with regards to the bug gameplay wise has been countered by diarouga, and it should be abundantly clear by now that this is not obviously a cheat, yet people still act as if it's funny if people say it's a reasonable feature because they're so stuck in their own bubble. God gave each and every one of us a brain, and most of us have the ability to use that brain. It'd be a sin to blatantly ignore that what god gifted you.

ah... you believe in god. It all makes sense now!

[Kaiserklein]

Well I don't want my opponent to be able to escape because of the pull trick, nor to be able to kill guardians without losing HPs. What you want doesn't really matter. Besides, as I stated previously, you can't shoot too fast in real games, so if you micro the WC (which means that you don't micro your other units meanwhile) you'll at best get 1 ROF, which isn't really a big deal.

Again, if it is really an issue (which I don't think it is), it is also possible to ban the use of this glitch against your opponent's units while allowing it vs treasure guardians.

I've tried it before and could shoot way faster than once per second...
And pull trick isn't a glitch, I thought we made that clear. About side stepping, it can be banned.

Why would you ban the glitch in half the cases only? It's like you're just trying to make it complicated on purpose. It's just so obvious that this fast shooting shit is cancerous in every way, literally 90% of the community got that, but of course we always have some people advocating cheats and cheesy shit... I guess it's a coincidence that it's always the same people.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well I don't want my opponent to be able to escape because of the pull trick, nor to be able to kill guardians without losing HPs. What you want doesn't really matter. Besides, as I stated previously, you can't shoot too fast in real games, so if you micro the WC (which means that you don't micro your other units meanwhile) you'll at best get 1 ROF, which isn't really a big deal.

Again, if it is really an issue (which I don't think it is), it is also possible to ban the use of this glitch against your opponent's units while allowing it vs treasure guardians.

I've tried it before and could shoot way faster than once per second...
And pull trick isn't a glitch, I thought we made that clear. About side stepping, it can be banned.

Why would you ban the glitch in half the cases only? It's like you're just trying to make it complicated on purpose. It's just so obvious that this fast shooting shit is cancerous in every way, literally 90% of the community got that, but of course we always have some people advocating cheats and cheesy shit... I guess it's a coincidence that it's always the same people.

Yea some guys are more open minded than some other

[momuuu]

Well I don't want my opponent to be able to escape because of the pull trick, nor to be able to kill guardians without losing HPs. What you want doesn't really matter. Besides, as I stated previously, you can't shoot too fast in real games, so if you micro the WC (which means that you don't micro your other units meanwhile) you'll at best get 1 ROF, which isn't really a big deal.

Again, if it is really an issue (which I don't think it is), it is also possible to ban the use of this glitch against your opponent's units while allowing it vs treasure guardians.

I've tried it before and could shoot way faster than once per second...
And pull trick isn't a glitch, I thought we made that clear. About side stepping, it can be banned.

Why would you ban the glitch in half the cases only? It's like you're just trying to make it complicated on purpose. It's just so obvious that this fast shooting shit is cancerous in every way, literally 90% of the community got that, but of course we always have some people advocating cheats and cheesy shit... I guess it's a coincidence that it's always the same people.

1) If it can be done extremely fast, why don't you go ahead and produce a video as definitive evidence?

You would ban the glitch in half the cases only if you think it's a fun trick that would improve the gameplay in the allowed scenarios. If this is all so obvious, how come all of your arguments are being countered by diarouga? If it's so obvious then surely you could come up with tons and tons of arguments that completely blow the opposition away? Why has this not happened then? Why are you instead resulting to implying that people arguing in favor of this like cheats and cheesy shit? Is it just coincidence that instead of giving real arguments you give an ad hominem fallacy?

[momuuu]

sigh. If only people could think for themselves instead of endlessly repeating what they heard their neighboor say. So far literally every argument with regards to the bug gameplay wise has been countered by diarouga, and it should be abundantly clear by now that this is not obviously a cheat, yet people still act as if it's funny if people say it's a reasonable feature because they're so stuck in their own bubble. God gave each and every one of us a brain, and most of us have the ability to use that brain. It'd be a sin to blatantly ignore that what god gifted you.

ah... you believe in god. It all makes sense now!

viewtopic.php?f=318&t=718&start=50#p14136
Get your facts straight please.

[Garja]

Why in hell should I fix monitor attack to accomadate your bug or balance thongs around the explorer crackshot.glitch? Just so that you can win this discusssion?!
Seriously, you are a pain in the ass with all the logic bullshit and then you come with 60 iq arguments.

[momuuu]

Why in hell should I fix monitor attack to accomadate your bug or balance thongs around the explorer crackshot.glitch? Just so that you can win this discusssion?!
Seriously, you are a pain in the ass with all the logic bullshit and then you come with 60 iq arguments.

Episode 21 of arguing with garja: garja claiming you have 60 iq.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why in hell should I fix monitor attack to accomadate your bug or balance thongs around the explorer crackshot.glitch? Just so that you can win this discusssion?!
Seriously, you are a pain in the ass with all the logic bullshit and then you come with 60 iq arguments.

Why the hell should I allow some glitches and not some others? It doesn't make sense, so why not just ban the monitor abuse and let the explorer use it? It's not even more complicated than the current tourney rules.
Anyway, even if my arguments were 60 iq, it would still be better than no arguments at all

[Garja]

Ok Jerom from now on , all your messages of this kind will be reported, since I dont have to deal woth a toddler with some inferiority complex just cause I like browsing the forums.

[Garja]

Because we decided that the explorer crackshot bug is not good either, so the glitch is entirely forbidden.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ok Jerom from now on , all your messages of this kind will be reported, since I dont have to deal woth a toddler with some inferiority complex just cause I like browsing the forums.

So you can claim with no arguments that someone's opinion doesn't make sense, that he is dumb, that he writes bs, and that he's 60 iq, but you can't make fun of the guy who claims that without actually having arguments?

[Googol]

You guys could keep arguing forever, the ones who actually host the tournaments and own this site are going to make the rules and thats how it is, if its forbidden in the rules then its forbidden and thats it, i appreciate people who like to shout out loudly their opinion, but in the end the ones who host the tournaments are dictating these terms the tournaments will be played upon and its only up to them, if theyre willing to take into consideration what people have to say.

[Mitoe]

Hmm. Yeah it does work with other ranged explorers. How did I not know about this, or see anyone else doing it?

You did it yourself without knowing it, in your first game vs knusch: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277077094?t=1h27m15s
You don't actually have to walk back after shooting, any direction works. What matters is that your explo - the treasure - the guardian are roughly aligned, and that you start walking directly after shooting.

No, I knew that this happens and how to recreate it to an extent (and even use it a lot of the time), but walking backwards instead of any other direction at the same time as the guardian seems far more consistent.

This is bigger than fast shooting for sure. Treasures guardians are meant to attack you, not run from the treasure.

I disagree because there's still risk involved (takes more time to take the treasure, risk of resetting guardian, etc.). Crackshot cancelling costs you literally nothing. It's 100% reward.

[momuuu]

Ok Jerom from now on , all your messages of this kind will be reported, since I dont have to deal woth a toddler with some inferiority complex just cause I like browsing the forums.

I beg your pardon? You're the one that said my IQ is 60 and now I'm the one being mean?

[[Armag] diarouga]

You guys could keep arguing forever, the ones who actually host the tournaments and own this site are going to make the rules and thats how it is, if its forbidden in the rules then its forbidden and thats it, i appreciate people who like to shout out loudly their opinion, but in the end the ones who host the tournaments are dictating these terms the tournaments will be played upon and its only up to them, if theyre willing to take into consideration what people have to say.

I'm not talking about tournaments actually.
It's their tournament so of course they can ban it and there's nothing I can do about it.
They don't own eso however, so this is actually relevant because it rules the random eso games.

[[Armag] diarouga]

This is bigger than fast shooting for sure. Treasures guardians are meant to attack you, not run from the treasure.

I disagree because there's still risk involved (takes more time to take the treasure, risk of resetting guardian, etc.). Crackshot cancelling costs you literally nothing. It's 100% reward.

Yea I agree, but the bank exploit is also 100% reward too.
Anyway, if you claim that it is fine because it has drawbacks, then it means that bugs shouldn't be banned because they are bugs (unlike what Caria claims), but that we should open discussions about the pros and the cons in order to decide whether or not it is positive for the game.

[momuuu]

Hmm. Yeah it does work with other ranged explorers. How did I not know about this, or see anyone else doing it?

You did it yourself without knowing it, in your first game vs knusch: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277077094?t=1h27m15s
You don't actually have to walk back after shooting, any direction works. What matters is that your explo - the treasure - the guardian are roughly aligned, and that you start walking directly after shooting.

No, I knew that this happens and how to recreate it to an extent (and even use it a lot of the time), but walking backwards instead of any other direction at the same time as the guardian seems far more consistent.

This is bigger than fast shooting for sure. Treasures guardians are meant to attack you, not run from the treasure.

I disagree because there's still risk involved (takes more time to take the treasure, risk of resetting guardian, etc.). Crackshot cancelling costs you literally nothing. It's 100% reward.

There is still risk involved with alt-d because your opponent can kill your explorer again and get 45 xp. So you think alt-d is fine then? Or should your argument be reconsidered because it is apperantly completely arbitrary?

[Garja]

Stop trying to find one single condition that discriminates between something allowed and something not. There is not. It is decided case by case considering the bug/glitch itself, its impact, etc.
And for the record treasure side stepping could be banned too for what concerns me.