Is using a bank wagon to build multiple banks cheating?

[edeholland]

In the first game of Mitoe vs Knuschelbar today, Mitoe (I think it was him, it was a Dutch mirror) used his bank wagon to build another bank he built a foundation of. This meant he didn't have to spend villager seconds on building the bank with villagers. Is this considered cheating???

[CurassierAndCurassier]

Why would it? A bug or cheat would be doing something outside of what was designed. The game was designed to allow wagons to build already in progress buildings. I'm 95% sure the other building wagons can do this trick as well. And as aiz said on twitch, it's not all that much of an advantage, if anything.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why would it? A bug or cheat would be doing something outside of what was designed. The game was designed to allow wagons to build already in progress buildings. I'm 95% sure the other building wagons can do this trick as well. And as aiz said on twitch, it's not all that much of an advantage, if anything.

I'm pretty sure it's a bug and it wasn't intended to have the other banks building faster too.

[musketeer925]

I agree this behavior probably wasn't intended by the game's devs.

[Warno]

It seems like if tourney admins ban certain bugs (crackshot animation reset) then other bugs will have to be banned as well, regardless of effectiveness of the bug. The precedent has been set.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It doesn't have a big impact on the game though, and it's an okay mechanic, so it's fine to accept it imo.
@Warno No lol, they don't care and they'll just ban the bugs they don't like.

[musketeer925]

Bank costs 30 build points. With 1 settler it's 1 build point per second, thus taking 30 seconds to build. (FYI, multiple settlers don't scale linearly, there are losses to using multiple).

Bank wagon builds at 3 build points per second, resulting in 10 second Bank build.

So that's saving ~30 villager-seconds and gaining 20 seconds of Bank gathering. Bank gathers 2.75 gold per second. That's 2.75 gold per second * 20 sec + 30 villager-seconds * 0.50 gold per villager-second = 70 gold profit, in exchange to additional micro needed for doing this. You're also delaying the second bank from the wagon by that 20 seconds, so that is basically a wash.

So really only the 15 gold is the only difference. I'd say that doesn't matter. Probably not worth the micro.

[edeholland]

You're also delaying the second bank from the wagon by that 20 seconds, so that is basically a wash.

You are only delaying the second bank from the wagon for 10 seconds right? It's 10 seconds delay + 10 seconds build time.

[Gendarme]

Mitoe is such a fascist.

[Aizamk]

It's at best a party trick, you may even come out behind since you have to delay building your bank despite having the resources to build one if you want to even use it. + It's usually too risky.

Scenario editor, 4vills and a bank wagon next to coin mine. Results are after 40 seconds. A villager is either building or mining coin. Banks built side by side.

4v-bank wagon-bank = 205
3v-mine 1v-bank wagon-bank = 198
bank trick = 235

So you gain around 30 coin, maybe maximum 40 coin if you pause micro so it's all perfectly done.
Also if you do it incorrectly you lose 700 resources, tough luck.

[musketeer925]

You're also delaying the second bank from the wagon by that 20 seconds, so that is basically a wash.

You are only delaying the second bank from the wagon for 10 seconds right? It's 10 seconds delay + 10 seconds build time.

Yes that is what I meant.

[momuuu]

But I thought bug = cheat????

[gibson]

switching away from jap cons on re is cheating too

[stronk]

By your logic it should be banned. You can mess up the explorer crack shot cancell thing as well and end up worse. It is a bug so it should be banned.

[Garja]

It is a cheat of course. Just it is not significant enough to be banned or fixed, at least for the moment.
Pretty sure that if some player complains because opponent did that vs him a rule specification could easily be made to include it.

[DivideNConquer]

I don't think its a bug or a cheat.
The bank wagon builds a bank faster than villagers right? So in theory in has special "builders" within it
The bank wagon contains better engineers who are specialized in building banks..
You take those engineers out of their way and use them on another bank.. all the while delaying them from going on to build the bank they were first supposed to build.
I find it more as a smart tactic than a "bug". In my opinion, I think the Devs wanted it that way and meant for this to happen. It's up to debate of course, but I don't think its a cheat like reviving the explorer using the infamous hotkey.

[_H2O]

It nets you very little resources if Any because you have to delay using the wagon to get your bank. Therefore I don’t care much about this one.

Let the philosophical discussion continue

[[Armag] diarouga]

I don't think its a bug or a cheat.
The bank wagon builds a bank faster than villagers right? So in theory in has special "builders" within it
The bank wagon contains better engineers who are specialized in building banks..
You take those engineers out of their way and use them on another bank.. all the while delaying them from going on to build the bank they were first supposed to build.
I find it more as a smart tactic than a "bug". In my opinion, I think the Devs wanted it that way and meant for this to happen. It's up to debate of course, but I don't think its a cheat like reviving the explorer using the infamous hotkey.

Well, the ranged explorers are scared when wolves or bears attack them. After all, who wouldn't? If you've watched The Revenant you know that you don't want to get caught by a bear! Thus, if you have the micro skills for it, you can make explorers shoot faster when they see wolves or bears because they are scared.
I have to admit that coyotes aren't very scary though. So maybe we should ban fast shooting if it used against coyotes, and allow it against wolves, bears and outlaws?

[Mitoe]

It's relevant so infrequently that I don't think it really matters; and as other people have pointed out, it doesn't even net you that much.

This is one I'm 50/50 on. I don't really care if it's used or if it's banned because its impact on the game is mostly negligible.

[Ashvin]

BREAKING NEWS!!!! MITOE CHEATER NUB!!!!

[momuuu]

It nets you very little resources if Any because you have to delay using the wagon to get your bank. Therefore I don’t care much about this one.

Let the philosophical discussion continue

Building rotator as most civs is basically irrelevant yet its banned????

[lemmings121]

wth, I dont understand whats happening here. someone link the vod/clip?

[Garja]

Building rotator is not irrelevant with any civ. With couple civs it is very relevant.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Building rotator is not irrelevant with any civ. With couple civs it is very relevant.

You can always wall instead which is about 15wood so yes it is irrelevant.

[Garja]

I'm not going to repeat the same arguments for the same subject every time. Building rotator has been proven bad for the game already hence why it is not allowed.