What happens if you watch an online recorded boom?

[edeholland]

Who has bad internet and wants to try this with me?

Inb4 100 people tagging each other

[deleted_user]

I don't get this thread.

[edeholland]

I don't get this thread.

The same boom gives more resources offline than online (due to lag).

So if you watch a recording of an online game, would you have the same amount of resources in the recording as the online game, or more?

[deleted_user]

No, I get it, but, like, why?

[edeholland]

Doesn't seem like anybody even has a clue how a recording really works. It's pretty interesting.

[deleted_user]

OK, now I get it. Thanks!

[Jaeger]

Who has bad internet and wants to try this with me?

Inb4 100 people tagging each other

Hey we can do this, I will open Hazza's stream 100 times; hopefully some of the lag will even leak through twitch from him and we will have a better test. I'll be on in 20 minutes

[edeholland]

Who has bad internet and wants to try this with me?

Inb4 100 people tagging each other

Hey we can do this, I will open Hazza's stream 100 times; hopefully some of the lag will even leak through twitch from him and we will have a better test. I'll be on in 20 minutes

We could also take any random recording from the treaty tournament, right?

[supahons]

idk what you want to achieve

ask @EAGLEMUT
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe3/comments/78qv97/where_do_recorded_games_save/
recorded game files essentially just contain the list of commands issued during a given match. Playing a recorded game boils down to executing these commands in sequence again, on the actual game engine - so it's actually "playing the game", except you have no control over the units.
No other program will be able to read and execute these commands. To do that, such program would have to simulate the entire behavior of the AoE3 game engine with 100% precision.

if you make a fotograph, the picture won't change. until you edit it/ it decays. it's same with the recording, why should there be more resources?. this sounds like a bad mystery case/ ghost story to me, i don't get it.

[Jaeger]

Who has bad internet and wants to try this with me?

Inb4 100 people tagging each other

Hey we can do this, I will open Hazza's stream 100 times; hopefully some of the lag will even leak through twitch from him and we will have a better test. I'll be on in 20 minutes

We could also take any random recording from the treaty tournament, right?

Yeah

[Jaeger]

idk what you want to achieve

ask @EAGLEMUT
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe3/comments/78qv97/where_do_recorded_games_save/
recorded game files essentially just contain the list of commands issued during a given match. Playing a recorded game boils down to executing these commands in sequence again, on the actual game engine - so it's actually "playing the game", except you have no control over the units.
No other program will be able to read and execute these commands. To do that, such program would have to simulate the entire behavior of the AoE3 game engine with 100% precision.

if you make a fotograph, the picture won't change. until you edit it/ it decays. it's same with the recording, why should there be more resources?. this sounds like a bad mystery case/ ghost story to me, i don't get it.

Well again, you seem to not believe that all the treaty players say they consistently get much higher scores with the same boom online vs offline (at the exact same game time). I don't know the technical side, I just know what I said.

[edeholland]

idk what you want to achieve

ask @EAGLEMUT
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe3/comments/78qv97/where_do_recorded_games_save/
recorded game files essentially just contain the list of commands issued during a given match. Playing a recorded game boils down to executing these commands in sequence again, on the actual game engine - so it's actually "playing the game", except you have no control over the units.
No other program will be able to read and execute these commands. To do that, such program would have to simulate the entire behavior of the AoE3 game engine with 100% precision.

if you make a fotograph, the picture won't change. until you edit it/ it decays. it's same with the recording, why should there be more resources?. this sounds like a bad mystery case/ ghost story to me, i don't get it.

Because if you issue the exact same commands in an offline vs an online game, you get more resources.

It's not at all a fotograph. It's instructions on how to make a photo.

[edeholland]

@Jaeger Going to watch the finals of the 2015 Treaty Cup now. Wish me luck.

[edeholland]

[edeholland]

The recording has a very very tiny bit more resources, but that may very well be because of human reaction time. Since I can't play a recording backwards, it's hard to know what the exact moment is I clicked.

In both scenario's, I tried to pause the game the moment the "Treaty has ended" message appeared.

Maybe we should try a 4 hour boom to know for sure.

[musketeer925]

Looks like that question is settled.

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah I definitely don't think it records player clicks. "Actions" (being "musketeer w/ ID=100 told to move to 0x=100,y=100) would be much simpler.

It does show when a unit is selected, even if you do nothing with it, afaik. That doesn't mean it records all clicks, but all "relevant" clicks (or keys) for sure.
Anyway, from my experience of watching recs, I'd say it does record what happened in game (and not what "should" happen, if there was no lag). I clearly remember seeing recs showing lag (units getting stuck/idle for example). So I really don't think you would get extra hidden resources like that when watching the rec of an offline boom.
EDIT: yeah just look at the scores, it's the exact same in rec and stream. No way there's a real difference in the rec.

[musketeer925]

That doesn't mean it records all clicks, but all "relevant" clicks (or keys) for sure.

I would describe that as recording "selections". What I am saying about clicks is that it's not recording "player 1 clicked pixel 100, 200 on his screen at 11:00.142", that would be a ridiculous way to save recorded game data.

[supahons]

@edeholland:((edit: you have already looked into this now)) yes the picture was an oversimplification, but your question was:
So if you watch a recording of an online game, would you have the same amount of resources in the recording as the online game, or more?
--> how can you have more resources when you watch a recording? (how should the data change suddenly - you would have different statistics too in the end )


kaiserkleins explaination was similar to mine (lag), i tried to add a bit theory for a better understanding/ or sothat you can refute my explaination --> sothat i can learn too.
"The bad network latency causes the score difference." and "Everybody has a different pc configuration, internet provider, timezone, distance between the servers". that was my explaination for the difference.
Ovis answer: Well again, you seem to not believe that all the treaty players say they consistently get much higher scores with the same boom online vs offline -> ok whatever, case closed (edit: sry this was a bit rude)

[Kaiserklein]

That doesn't mean it records all clicks, but all "relevant" clicks (or keys) for sure.

I would describe that as recording "selections". What I am saying about clicks is that it's not recording "player 1 clicked pixel 100, 200 on his screen at 11:00.142", that would be a ridiculous way to save recorded game data.

Well, selections and actions. But yeah I agree that it's useless to record this kind of "irrelevant" clicks/keys.
But it doesn't just record the player input I think. It apparently also records its consequence (for example, unit behaviour). So if a unit takes a retarded pathing or gets stuck without any apparent reason, it will still be shown on the rec.

[_H2O]

This would raise a good question about what is happening in the game engine to cause lag to reduce gathering. It seems to be capturae through the games commands.

If we ever fully understand recording files we could compare online and lan booms and see why.

[_H2O]

Actually I bet there are line items for each tick as resources come in. So while the lag may reduce the speed of those data points it’s not the lag itself being captured?

[supahons]

there is a reason for the strange format of the recordings and scenarios (age3Yrec,age3Yscn) --> copyright
if the developers would have wanted to make this knowledge public, then they would have chosen a different format, but they didn't. for instance in the scenario-editor you can only add triggers to your trigtemp file, that's all as far as ik.
the game recording is like a cassette (with more than only audio data) - you sing/play and then you can listen/watch it again. (timedelay, lag included)

legal solution: play lan-treaty games

[deleted_user0]

There is for sure a difference between the resources at the same game time online and offline, mamy players have reported for example 2600 score at 40 minutes in game online and 3000 at 40 minutes in game offline.

everybody has a different pc configuration, internet provider, timezone, distance between the servers. what do you expect?

maybe make 2 lists: offline and online max. scores
it's possible to achieve x -points on ...map with ...civ

hint: game experience may change during online play ---> read this before you log in next time

i know there is a bug, when u send dogsoldiers while having a different clock configuration than someone else, sometimes it means that you get a different number of dogsoldiers, aka 1 clock says 5 the other says 6. and u get oos.

[Jaeger]

there is a reason for the strange format of the recordings and scenarios (age3Yrec,age3Yscn) --> copyright
if the developers would have wanted to make this knowledge public, then they would have chosen a different format, but they didn't. for instance in the scenario-editor you can only add triggers to your trigtemp file, that's all as far as ik.
the game recording is like a cassette (with more than only audio data) - you sing/play and then you can listen/watch it again. (timedelay, lag included)

legal solution: play lan-treaty games

I'm just curious, from the technical side what is actually preventing someone from seeing how the recorded gameswork?