Walls Design Sucks

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No Flag Jaeger
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Walls Design Sucks

Post by Jaeger »

Mod note: Forked from viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14921

I also think that people don't build enough walls with dutch; I really like how @momuui walled his base. Many times PR 40's struggle to wall with buildings perfectly, arguing if we should use rotator mod because it can make a big difference, etc. Also some games are decided because the 9 ryuters came 5 secs too late, etc. All of these problems could just be fixed by just let's say 20w of walls, which gives you about as much walling as 4 raxes
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Jaeger »

Also I think people don't wall enough with brit. Im thinking in age 3 when you are defensive and you camp on top of your hunt,, just 1-2 pieces of wall in front can be game changing. I'd be interested also what @Goodspeed has to say about this
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yes, people don't wall enough with Brit/Dutch. That's because people here don't like walls, but considering optimal play, people would have to wall and go greedier.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Kaiserklein »

Of course walls are still too strong, especially for campy civs. They should be abused more. I actually use them quite a lot in tourneys
Thank god people mostly don't do it though, it makes games more boring
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Garja »

People except one person, guess who.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Kaiserklein »

There's more than one for sure
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by EAGLEMUT »

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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

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Post by _H2O »

If you think about it, wouldn't it be nice just to remove walls all together?
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Gendarme »

Walls are shit and so is treaty, yes.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Hazza54321 »

i think u need walls lategame, could unlock them in age 3 but have 3khp again?(or maybe 2k), when siege becomes available
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France Aykin Haraka
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Garja »

_H2O wrote:If you think about it, wouldn't it be nice just to remove walls all together?

In a new game? Yes.
In this game we prob shuold consider a build time increase.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by _H2O »

I don’t even think in a new game. I think as designed it would be a net positive to have walls removed fro pre age 4 play.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Rikikipu »

n0el wrote:Town Center Design Sucks..............and is one reason that AoE3 quickly transitions into a very stale metagame even with various changes to units and unit design. Why? Because the lack of being able to rapidly expand your economy leads to less comeback potential and severely limits variations in eco style openers. I would love to see the EP team try something more radical along the line they've already approached with the TC cost reduction. Make them available earlier, remove the build limit, and cheapen them more. Of course this would require some other changes in order to prevent extreme turtle play....but it would be the biggest freshening of the game since the RE patch changed TP's to 200w. #FreeTheTC

P.S. I wrote a really long post about this, that somehow went missing and @duck couldn't help me retrieve it, so instead this poorly written garbage is what you get.....thanks duck.

Agreed, overall I think the game lacks mobility, and this is part of due to the Town center stats. You don't want to lose it, it's really strong and on EP you don't even need to leave your base before 10+ minutes. It would be bettter to have cheaper tcs with less HP, the game would be more mobile, because it would be easier to switch your base to another place on the map.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Garja »

Possible. Walls don't work very well in AOE3. But again it's just a core feature of AOE games.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by deleted_user0 »

I think walls are currently fine. Its the wall upgrade that should be moved to IV
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Hazza54321 »

Prefer umeus alternative
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by deleted_user0 »

I have a great, novel idea! i should make a patch!
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Garja »

Ye maybe (the wall thing)
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Jaeger »

Kaiserklein wrote:Of course walls are still too strong, especially for campy civs. They should be abused more. I actually use them quite a lot in tourneys
Thank god people mostly don't do it though, it makes games more boring

I guess it makes games more boring in some ways, but couldn't also be a motivation to do some different builds, which would be fun? Maybe you could have chance for an FI, or take map control with a fort while the guy is hiding in his base, or change the timings to a little later but with more units, or make you go for cannons, etc.?
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Garja »

FI is already quite possible. The problem with walls is when you start walling off the whole map.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Warno »

Increased build time seems like a good idea.

The pillar delete trick basically made walls build much faster than they were meant to be.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by _H2O »

With the EP HP reduction maybe. But even that simplifies the value of base building substantially.

I was thinking age 4 gives you free stone walls and there are no walls until age 4.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Kaiserklein »

This might make FI kind of OP. Just hit age 4, and while your opponent reacts and pushes you, just build 7.5k hp walls for 5w each.

Imo, make walls available in age 2 at least (to prevent people from going full turtle before you can make any unit to deny it), or maybe in age 3 if age 2 is not enough. Delaying the bastion upgrade sounds like a must tbh. Having it in age 3 or 4 sounds good, atm having it in age 2 is ridiculous, how are you supposed to siege down 7.5k hp walls in colo without any siege units?
Then increased build time could be good to nerf "last second walls". Honestly sometimes it just feels OP to just build walls while fighting/while being raided real fast, to cover your stuff. For example I remember saving my 2 falc shipment sometimes by just building a ninja wall between falcs and opponent's army at last second. And it would also nerf wall spam, which is good cause it's obviously cancer.
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Re: Town Center Design Sucks

Post by Papist »

This reminds me of the debate over water. How many of the complaints about walls stem from walls being truly imbalanced, and how many stem from people being just rigid and not wanting to adapt to the opponent's playstyle?
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