What would AOE3 look like if it had a serious pro scene?

[Jaeger]

We have some very good players, but even they make mistakes; they have many unspent res, they don't scout sometimes and get surprised by a unit switch, they don't react in time, etc. I think with pros these mechanical things would be a given. How would this affect gameplay, and how would the meta look in your opinion?

[Googol]

It would look boring, people making mistakes from time to time and trying to fix them in order to improve their performance is what makes the game competitive.

[musketeer925]

We have some very good players, even they make mistakes; they have many unspent res, they don't scout sometimes and get surprised by a unit switch, they don't react in time, etc.

By this description, I must be a very good player

[Jaeger]

It would look boring, people making mistakes from time to time and trying to fix them in order to improve their performance is what makes the game competitive.

Pro's would make mistakes too, only strategic mistakes rather than mechanical, which makes it more interesting imo.

[Googol]

It would look boring, people making mistakes from time to time and trying to fix them in order to improve their performance is what makes the game competitive.

Pro's would make mistakes too, only strategic mistakes rather than mechanical, which makes it more interesting imo.

Then in that case you can compare that to rolling dices. After all this game is based on series of responses on what is your opponent doing and how do you want to counter his decisions. In case that they're no mechanical mistakes, the one that comes up with a superior strategy will take the game I guess?

[deleted_user]

Raiding would be a bigger thing, skirm goon would get skirmier and goonier, rushing would be even less effective.

[Jaeger]

It would look boring, people making mistakes from time to time and trying to fix them in order to improve their performance is what makes the game competitive.

Pro's would make mistakes too, only strategic mistakes rather than mechanical, which makes it more interesting imo.

Then in that case you can compare that to rolling dices. After all this game is based on series of responses on what is your opponent doing and how do you want to counter his decisions. In case that they're no mechanical mistakes, the one that comes up with a superior strategy will take the game I guess?

Well we would see players constantly trying new builds to beat others, which would be very interesting. Also they would scout a lot more to see the enemy strategy, and it would be interesting to see the reactions, attempts to scout, attempts to block scouting, etc. Idk exactly how it works but many games have pros who are watched by thousands, so they must be entertaining.

[Jaeger]

Raiding would be a bigger thing, skirm goon would get skirmier and goonier, rushing would be even less effective.

I would think raiding would be less effective since they would have the APM to deal with them, and a few huss could make a difference in perfectly macroed/microed battles.

[Jaeger]

Also, who knows maybe age 2 play would make a comeback. I know it doesn't seem possible since it seems like everything's been tried, but that's what everyone always thinks before something new comes out.

[momuuu]

Idk, I feel like at some point the game is so figured out that you could make some detailed write up that explains perfect play, which everyone will follow. And then it becomes only execution. Aoe3 probably doesnt have enough depth for it to be a huge esport.

[Googol]

Show hidden quotes

It would look boring, people making mistakes from time to time and trying to fix them in order to improve their performance is what makes the game competitive.

Pro's would make mistakes too, only strategic mistakes rather than mechanical, which makes it more interesting imo.

Then in that case you can compare that to rolling dices. After all this game is based on series of responses on what is your opponent doing and how do you want to counter his decisions. In case that they're no mechanical mistakes, the one that comes up with a superior strategy will take the game I guess?

Well we would see players constantly trying new builds to beat others, which would be very interesting. Also they would scout a lot more to see the enemy strategy, and it would be interesting to see the reactions, attempts to scout, attempts to block scouting, etc. Idk exactly how it works but many games have pros who are watched by thousands, so they must be entertaining.

The thing is, even when given the fact that the players would have no mistakes regarding the mechanics, it's hard to imagine for example, you want to scout what your opponent is doing, obviously age 1 scouting helps regarding TC location and distribution of resources which gives an Intel for your possible raids in the future, but when it comes to that point you want to scout the other player in age 2 to see what he opens up with and both players will do this at the same time, given an example: Match up is British vs Germany on Mendocino the British player scouts and sees that the German player has opened up with building a stable, therefore he suspects some calvary coming out of it or is it a bait? He can only know if he's going to stay there for a longer period of time to see for himself, but this information comes at a risk, either he will wait to see for himself if the uhlans come out or if it's a bait and the German player actually ages, what the British player will do in that case he has either managed to train some pikemen or musketeers in order to counter the expected incoming calvary and he keeps them training more and more (we also need to count on the fact that his explorer in Germany's base would be pretty much dead right now.) and the British player will train about 20 pikemen and scare off few uhlans from his base, and then boom, Germany is in age 3 therefore the pikemen became useless (considering the British player isn't aging himself and doesn't want to switch into LB Goon combo with cannons, but let's just assume he blindly trained pikemen only and he isn't actually aging or anything) what the British player will now do? He's in inferior position in this situation, German player knows this because of his uhlan poking and ships skirmishers trains some war wagons upgrades uhlans and steamroll into British base. Scenario 2 is that after the stable being built he calls it a bluff doesn't really train anything, he tries to age himself and then boom 30 uhlans in base gg. It might seem like an silly example and I don't see this type of game being done on high levels, but it has a point. Considering the both players have mechanics with no mistakes, the one who comes up with an superior game plan and strategy to the other wins the game, in this scenario it would just be a game of gamble and dice rolls.

[jesus3]

It would be a scene where I'd be noob enough to enjoy the game again, knowing I can't beat "high players" no matter what I do

Instead now some of you are occasionally dropping some meat in my direction or even letting me win (on purpose ofc)

[Hazza54321]

better army movement, more raids, better scouting, more interesting meta,

[Garja]

There would be more builds used. Larger player base + higher skill means more civ depth and possibility to practice. There are lot of builds that can counter other builds (or get a marginal advantage out of it) but need perfect in game decisions and execution.

[momuuu]

If you see the level of sc2 pros and the degree of perfection you will severely doubt if aoe3 would be any fun anymore at that sort of level. Those players are beyond insane, they're like h2o in top form x100 on both a strategic and mechanical level. I dont think aoe3 would be very fun then. The game is too stale for it. In the end the situations you end up being in wont vary enough for the game to not be completely figured out, and theres just not enough micro/multitask potential for players who average 300 apm and can easily spike up to 500 or 600 apm.

[Jaeger]

better army movement, more raids, better scouting, more interesting meta,

If they are that good at raiding wouldn't they start building towers in 1v1 and then raiding doesn't work?

[Jaeger]

If you see the level of sc2 pros and the degree of perfection you will severely doubt if aoe3 would be any fun anymore at that sort of level. Those players are beyond insane, they're like h2o in top form x100 on both a strategic and mechanical level. I dont think aoe3 would be very fun then. The game is too stale for it. In the end the situations you end up being in wont vary enough for the game to not be completely figured out, and theres just not enough micro/multitask potential for players who average 300 apm and can easily spike up to 500 or 600 apm.

Well there's always room for micro APM, you could always select try to select the exact number of units needed to kill a unit and split fire that way.

And for macro too, you could always make sure your 3rd 4th hunts are herded as close as possible to your 1st 2nd hunts to minimize walking time, also while the vills are on bisons/trees you could minimize vill bumping. I've always wondered how many more res you would have if you microed your vills in the mid/late game as well as you micro them in age 1. Could be a huuuuge difference I think, which could open up the window to some crazy BO's we're not even thinking are viable atm.

[momuuu]

If you see the level of sc2 pros and the degree of perfection you will severely doubt if aoe3 would be any fun anymore at that sort of level. Those players are beyond insane, they're like h2o in top form x100 on both a strategic and mechanical level. I dont think aoe3 would be very fun then. The game is too stale for it. In the end the situations you end up being in wont vary enough for the game to not be completely figured out, and theres just not enough micro/multitask potential for players who average 300 apm and can easily spike up to 500 or 600 apm.

Well there's always room for micro APM, you could always select try to select the exact number of units needed to kill a unit and split fire that way.

And for macro too, you could always make sure your 3rd 4th hunts are herded as close as possible to your 1st 2nd hunts to minimize walking time, also while the vills are on bisons/trees you could minimize vill bumping. I've always wondered how many more res you would have if you microed your vills in the mid/late game as well as you micro them in age 1. Could be a huuuuge difference I think, which could open up the window to some crazy BO's we're not even thinking are viable atm.

I dont think it would make much of a difference tbh in terms of BOs. Maybe in midgame players would squeeze out a few resources. Btw, do most players not actually split villagers properly on hunts in midgame? Its something I regurlarly do, its not even hard to perform.

[momuuu]

I just think that the aoe3 level is extremely low compared to the level of pros. Im an untalented gamer, and in my 'prime' I played maybe one hour per day on average if even that. I managed to take two games of a RO8 player and got to ro32 myself. Thats just an indication of how low the level is. This level is so unimaginably far away from 8 hours+ every day practise with talented players, dedicated practise partners and coaches.

I just dont see how aoe3 would not be 'solved' by them and then turn into a mechanical coin flippy game.

[gibson]

Aoe3 could never have a pro scene like that, the game just isn't balanced enough. What you'd see is that in just about every mu one civ would have like a 80% win rate and a basically unstoppable strat. Prob the only interesting thing would be mirrors.

[gibson]

Also jerom is basically right, literally everyone who plays the game now would be straight ass vs pro players.

[outta_key_]

These forums would be written in Korean, not English...

[Jaeger]

If you see the level of sc2 pros and the degree of perfection you will severely doubt if aoe3 would be any fun anymore at that sort of level. Those players are beyond insane, they're like h2o in top form x100 on both a strategic and mechanical level. I dont think aoe3 would be very fun then. The game is too stale for it. In the end the situations you end up being in wont vary enough for the game to not be completely figured out, and theres just not enough micro/multitask potential for players who average 300 apm and can easily spike up to 500 or 600 apm.

Well there's always room for micro APM, you could always select try to select the exact number of units needed to kill a unit and split fire that way.

And for macro too, you could always make sure your 3rd 4th hunts are herded as close as possible to your 1st 2nd hunts to minimize walking time, also while the vills are on bisons/trees you could minimize vill bumping. I've always wondered how many more res you would have if you microed your vills in the mid/late game as well as you micro them in age 1. Could be a huuuuge difference I think, which could open up the window to some crazy BO's we're not even thinking are viable atm.

I dont think it would make much of a difference tbh in terms of BOs. Maybe in midgame players would squeeze out a few resources. Btw, do most players not actually split villagers properly on hunts in midgame? Its something I regurlarly do, its not even hard to perform.

How exactly do you split vills in midgame? I was talking about age 1 type stuff, where you make sure there is no vill bumping. So you constantly check your hunts to make sure 10 vills are not gathering from the same bison?

[Mitoe]

I feel like a lot of the people here are underestimating how much more there is to the game that's unexplored or ignored.

I think only a few of the current top players would even be able to compete if the game had an actual pro scene. I feel like things like water and healers (maybe not trained, but definitely from treasures), would be a lot more relevant, and people would rarely start big treasures in age 1; it's simply too risky.

I wonder if artillery would be used more or less, and whether the game would shift from being more defensive to more aggressive. Natural resources are so important in AoE3 that I could see pros being a lot more active with their units to try to deny even small patches of resources or divert attention away from more important areas of the map.

[princeofkabul]

aoe 3 is too glitchy and buggy to ever be considered as a real competitive rts. retarded luck and randomness also doesn't belong into the competitive rts.