Esoc Patch v5 balance poll

[macacoalbino]

colonial sepoy rush into sowar gurkha, mix zamb if he nagis

Its impossible to punish yumi+EP wall. On RE its even worse

[Djigit]

What does Cm give you? You still two shot.

Well you hit once with TC and you finish off with your monks and/or the poor batch of 3 yumi you managed to train.

[yemshi]

id rather send 5 yumi then

[lemmings121]

no way japs is last place.
imo the problem with jap is the counterpick. most players find japs a really bad civ to pick and be countered, but given a reasonable map/mu, jap is still ok.

also, india top1 might be true, its a good all arround civ, its just weird that the last place (japs) hard counters the first lol

[Garja]

Jap never hard countered India. If anything the exact opposite. But ye Jap is not in last place.

[Garja]

Kynesie's way (yumi/wall semi ff) should beat India consistently. However, very few players build walls (and with the EP nerf you might need 3-4 layers), so in the end it doesn't really matter.

Nah it's completely beatable if you have good India because walls are expensive anyway and they don't fully prevent some idle time. It also changes a lot depending on the crate start.

[Hazza54321]

i dont think theres a MU jap wins really

[Garja]

Dutch and Spain probably. But with a good build they also do fine vs basically all civs.

[Hazza54321]

i dont see them beating spain honestly, dutch i can see kinda but still dutch favourd imo, i agree they can do ok in some MUs like vs france or german or port but id still give the edge to fre ger port

[momuuu]

Imo the best way to balance is to take diarougas and lordraphaels opinions on balance, then make all of those opinions 50% less extreme and then make a patch.

[Hazza54321]

diarougas Kappa

[[Armag] diarouga]

Kynesie's way (yumi/wall semi ff) should beat India consistently. However, very few players build walls (and with the EP nerf you might need 3-4 layers), so in the end it doesn't really matter.

Nah it's completely beatable if you have good India because walls are expensive anyway and they don't fully prevent some idle time. It also changes a lot depending on the crate start.

Walls aren't expensive at all, like 50w is enough to hold the rush, and it does prevent idle time. Also I'd say Spain>Japan, and Japan vs Dutch is quite close.

[Garja]

50w it's expensive when everything is so tight. And you can still get through at the cost of 2-3 sepoy max. Then you have enough sepoy left (and more units coming) so one shot vills so he has to garrison them. Also because he spent res on wall (50w+all the vill walking time) he will have less units.
If India does even just some damage then it can outscale jap while not having that much of a problem with res shortage like for example for Brits.

[[Armag] diarouga]

50w it's expensive when everything is so tight. And you can still get through at the cost of 2-3 sepoy max. Then you have enough sepoy left (and more units coming) so one shot vills so he has to garrison them. Also because he spent res on wall (50w+all the vill walking time) he will have less units.
If India does even just some damage then it can outscale jap while not having that much of a problem with res shortage like for example for Brits.

By the time you break the wall, you'll lose more like 3-4 sepoys, so you'll have 13 sepoys left, and he'll have 10 yumis+mm which is more than enough to hold.
And no India can't outscale jap because jap can age and wins hard in age 3, and even in colonial yumis just rape everything India has.

[Hazza54321]

Elis area damage also good at denying the wall

[Garja]

India units are fine vs Jap. It takes several ups for yumi to be unbeatable and India cav still beat.