ESOCTV on YouTube

[BrookG]

Hi everyone!

Looking forward to the ESOC Autumn Championship finals, it would be nice to work on our video database. What better than taking advantage our YouTube channel! Please share 3 minutes of your time to fill in the following form! It will help a lot the work of Media Team. Thanks!

https://goo.gl/forms/WhYNPyosQuv9B6YT2

[pecelot]

what if my PR is off the scale

[momuuu]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

[Gendarme]

Lately it has been hard to find instances of Jerom being wrong. It must be the influence of Vane's aura. Fuckfase Jermon impresses.

[deleted_user0]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

or... you know... watch twitch videos...it's not that hard at all to find the right video.

like... can you blame a volunteer organization with very limited resources for focusing only or at least mainly on the dedicated core of the community theyre trying to serve, instead of putting in tons of effort to reach those few, or perhaps even many, individuals who are too lazy or care too little to spend a few clicks to find out pretty much all the things your asking for.

imo your demand is completely unreasonable. kinda the fact youre making demands, at least in that tone, is already unreasonable. it's not like your paying for a service which you arent getting...

[ChewSick]

just stream on youtube, then you don't need to upload the games because they're already there.

I prefer youtube streams anyway because it allows you to pause or hop back

[Snuden]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

or... you know... watch twitch videos...it's not that hard at all to find the right video.

like... can you blame a volunteer organization with very limited resources for focusing only or at least mainly on the dedicated core of the community theyre trying to serve, instead of putting in tons of effort to reach those few, or perhaps even many, individuals who are too lazy or care too little to spend a few clicks to find out pretty much all the things your asking for.

imo your demand is completely unreasonable. kinda the fact youre making demands, at least in that tone, is already unreasonable. it's not like your paying for a service which you arent getting...

The problem with Twitchsh videos is that it also buffer like crazy if in 1080 (at least for me) while on YouTube (and other tubes) I both stream and VOD like a fucking boss.

[Gendarme]

What other tubes?

[momuuu]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

or... you know... watch twitch videos...it's not that hard at all to find the right video.

like... can you blame a volunteer organization with very limited resources for focusing only or at least mainly on the dedicated core of the community theyre trying to serve, instead of putting in tons of effort to reach those few, or perhaps even many, individuals who are too lazy or care too little to spend a few clicks to find out pretty much all the things your asking for.

imo your demand is completely unreasonable. kinda the fact youre making demands, at least in that tone, is already unreasonable. it's not like your paying for a service which you arent getting...

There are no demands, only observations on how ESOC fails to engage the slightly less dedicated user in almost every regard. And the solution isnt unreasonable at all: instead of purposely delaying uploading games to youtube they should just upload to youtube within a week of the round finishing so that they actually keep up with the tournament. Thats not unreasonable at all..

[deleted_user0]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

or... you know... watch twitch videos...it's not that hard at all to find the right video.

like... can you blame a volunteer organization with very limited resources for focusing only or at least mainly on the dedicated core of the community theyre trying to serve, instead of putting in tons of effort to reach those few, or perhaps even many, individuals who are too lazy or care too little to spend a few clicks to find out pretty much all the things your asking for.

imo your demand is completely unreasonable. kinda the fact youre making demands, at least in that tone, is already unreasonable. it's not like your paying for a service which you arent getting...

The problem with Twitchsh videos is that it also buffer like crazy if in 1080 (at least for me) while on YouTube (and other tubes) I both stream and VOD like a fucking boss.

I'm sure it's inconvenient. Undoubtedly its also inconvenient for someone to upload every video immediately when its not your paid job.

[Snuden]

What other tubes?

Various tubes!

[deleted_user0]

Please just upload the tournament games asap. Youtube has 0 value to me because by the time serious matches are uploaded they've long been spoiled. And given that I currently don't actively follow the scene but simply occasionally look at a twitch stream, I am having a hard time following the tournament. There are almost no news posts here, the content on youtube is mostly irrelevant pr25 players duking it out to get bashed by a serious player and the twitch streams are packed with similair boring second chance games. The notification "ESOCTV has gone live" is worthless to me because I dont know what I will find when I tune in. Chances are its just another irrelevant game or showmatch, or that Ill be staring at the countdown for over an hour. Youtube uploads are mostly irrelevant and there seems to be little way to otherwise keep up with the tournament or follow the storyline of it because there is also a lack of newsposts. The only real thing there is to follow the tournament is some google calendar thing which is unfortunate because a) i dont use it and b) if I would use it I would never want to have it cluttered with aoe3 related stuff.

Honestly, in every regard esoc is failing to engage the slightly less dedicated person. There are almost no real tools to keep up, unless you want to dig through poorly named twitch vods while trying to not get spoiled but also trying to skip all the irrelevant matches.

or... you know... watch twitch videos...it's not that hard at all to find the right video.

like... can you blame a volunteer organization with very limited resources for focusing only or at least mainly on the dedicated core of the community theyre trying to serve, instead of putting in tons of effort to reach those few, or perhaps even many, individuals who are too lazy or care too little to spend a few clicks to find out pretty much all the things your asking for.

imo your demand is completely unreasonable. kinda the fact youre making demands, at least in that tone, is already unreasonable. it's not like your paying for a service which you arent getting...

There are no demands, only observations on how ESOC fails to engage the slightly less dedicated user in almost every regard. And the solution isnt unreasonable at all: instead of purposely delaying uploading games to youtube they should just upload to youtube within a week of the round finishing so that they actually keep up with the tournament. Thats not unreasonable at all..

sure, maybe i misinterpreted what you said, in that case you can disregard part of what i said. its indeed not unreasonable to ask for it to be uploaded asap. I'm assuming theyre doing so already, if not, then its reasonable to ask why not. if they can keep the "slightly" less dedicated people involved with minimum effort, thats not a bad thing, but i dont think it should really be any major concern.

[edeholland]

The main reason videos are not being uploaded immediately is because YouTube only sends 1 video a day to your subscription box and because in general you won't get much exposure if you spam out 10 videos in a day. When I export(ed) the Twitch vods, I usually did like 10 series in a row, so it would be easy to upload them to YouTube all at once. We just decided not to.

However, and this what the survey is about, this brings up questions: should the YouTube channel be there for those who want to follow the tournament, or for those that like to watch an AoE3 video from time to time? Should it be a database of all casts, or only contain the best series/games? Should we try to make it easy to find a specific match (by giving boring names) or should we try to attract new people (by using more clickbait titles and thumbnails).

[Gendarme]

I think they intentionally delay uploads to have a constant stream of "new" content.

[lemmings121]

Its ok having to wait for games to come on youtube imo. if you want to follow the latest game from one hour ago, there is twitch past broadcasts. its nice having new games beeing posted daily on YT.

BUT, you could prioritize the main event over second chance, and only post second chance games when there arent any games from the main event "in queue".

[Cometk]

@momuuu you might find this a useful resource viewtopic.php?f=563&t=15483

[momuuu]

Its ok having to wait for games to come on youtube imo. if you want to follow the latest game from one hour ago, there is twitch past broadcasts. its nice having new games beeing posted daily on YT.

BUT, you could prioritize the main event over second chance, and only post second chance games when there arent any games from the main event "in queue".

How does an average user know there have been games played and casted right now? Im not going to actively check twitch because its filled with junk. I check youtube every day because its the platform for content creators. Yet atm if nothing changes I will unsubscribe from ESOCTV because its managed poorly.

Trying to abuse the algorithm is great if you make mediocre content and want to get the most out of it. Doing this by dilluting good content with a metric ton of mediocre content and even making that good content worse by uploading it after everybody and his mom has already been spoiled is not a good practise. Its stupid.

@momuuu you might find this a useful resource viewtopic.php?f=563&t=15483

Although the effort is great, why is the primary source to follow the tournament a thread hidden away somewhere on the forums? How is that good media management?

[Cometk]

Its ok having to wait for games to come on youtube imo. if you want to follow the latest game from one hour ago, there is twitch past broadcasts. its nice having new games beeing posted daily on YT.

BUT, you could prioritize the main event over second chance, and only post second chance games when there arent any games from the main event "in queue".

How does an average user know there have been games played and casted right now? Im not going to actively check twitch because its filled with junk. I check youtube every day because its the platform for content creators. Yet atm if nothing changes I will unsubscribe from ESOCTV because its managed poorly.

Trying to abuse the algorithm is great if you make mediocre content and want to get the most out of it. Doing this by dilluting good content with a metric ton of mediocre content and even making that good content worse by uploading it after everybody and his mom has already been spoiled is not a good practise. Its stupid.

@momuuu you might find this a useful resource viewtopic.php?f=563&t=15483

Although the effort is great, why is the primary source to follow the tournament a thread hidden away somewhere on the forums? How is that good media management?

1) The upcoming stream schedule is always posted on the front page 16 to 24 hours ahead of time.
2) The match schedule thread here has been updated every day since the RO32 of the tournament, same as the stream schedule threads that were done in previous tournaments. It has been located in the scheduling section of the most current round.
3) The best way to follow ANY tournament is by first taking a peek at the bracket. From there you can see what might be the most interesting matches for you. Then you can give the YouTube channel a scan, or take a look at twitch past broadcasts if you couldn't find it on YouTube.
4) I'm not sure dumping 10 hours worth of tournament VODs to people's YouTube inbox on a Monday afternoon is any better for the casual viewer than a slow-roll release of daily videos is.

[Snuden]

I think the point is that ESOC should never have been as backlogged as its the case right now.

[edeholland]

4) I'm not sure dumping 10 hours worth of tournament VODs to people's YouTube inbox on a Monday afternoon is any better for the casual viewer than a slow-roll release of daily videos is.

Yeah, so perhaps we should only export the best series.

[Cometk]

Well, what is the “best series”? Is that one or two videos from each week? Is that only quarter-finals matches and beyond?

[edeholland]

That's up to the media team to decide, but you can usually tell by the amount of viewers, the reactions in chat, the reactions on the forums, the players, the casters and the reactions on YouTube what people find entertaining and what not. I think deciding on what is a good series and what isn't, isn't that hard to do. From RO8 you can upload pretty much every series at least.

Right now I think it would be good to upload all A-series as soon as possible when the series is over. All other series can still be uploaded, but without a subscription notification, so you don't get spammed for B-series. This allows the tournament followers to see the most interesting matches as soon as he wants, allows the average joe to see whatever appears in his subscription box and allows the hardcore AoE3-addict to find every specific series, because they are all uploaded. It makes YouTube both a tv-channel for quality series and a database for everything that has been streamed.

If a series really wasn't good because of technical failures, forfeitures or casting errors, I don't mind throwing one in the garbage bin.

[edeholland]

And while I agree that "you can just find all vods on Twitch", I have to say it's a much worse experience. Buffering on Twitch is just way worse than on YouTube, you can find stuff on YouTube easier, the Twitch vods aren't cut on Twitch so you have to find when things start and the Twitch player in general is very resource-heavy (I have a powerful computer, but can't watch Twitch while playing a game, while it easily handles YouTube). Only advantage Twitch has is the chat replay, which can be entertaining to read.

[Cometk]

A much more active management of the twitch to YouTube porting will require quite a bit more manpower.

[edeholland]

A much more active management of the twitch to YouTube porting will require quite a bit deal more manpower.

Yep, might be a good idea to recruit some more people. It's not like nobody is willing.

I also don't think manpower was the reason we handled YouTube the way we did.