We should get crazy with maps

[Goodspeed]

Especially considering the frequent complaints about a stale meta, I think it's time we get a little crazier with the maps. You see this in AoE2 and it's a breath of fresh air. I think currently we have a good base of balanced maps, but it's starting to show that we are lacking in gimmicky ones.

By gimmicky I don't mean obstacles. I mean actual new dynamics. Some examples:
- A map where you start with an outpost wagon
- A map where all the good resources are in the middle (berries and trees in base, gold mines/hunts in a "valley" in the middle)
- A map where you start with fishing boats instead of vills (maybe 1 to pick up crates)
- A map without hunts (berries/fish instead)
- A map without any gold

There are many more fun things we can do with maps, I'm sure we can come up with better stuff than the above. I think this would be good for the game because it's fresh and encourages creativity.

And yes, I would say feature them in tournaments. Just make sure there are enough balanced maps to counteract, and try to ensure each civ is viable on at least one.

[oxaloacetate]

Given how people reacted to a map like Bonnie Springs, I got to say that I look forward to this thread.

[EAGLEMUT]

I would love this.

[Gendarme]

@deleted_user2 thoughtsh?

[BrookG]

I want a map like silk road. Such that you can get buildings by killing their guardians: factories, military buildings, etc. But then again it turns more of a scenario-like maps

[Gendarme]

Heresy! This is not in line with Satoshi's Ensemble Studios's vision!

[91]

Bad
- a majority tend to avoid currently existing "crazy" maps for ranked play, sticking to very basic style maps.
- Some crazy maps will likely reward some civs more than others, and therefore see very few civs featured.
- having a regular tournament with crazy maps mixed in would likely bring tons of complaints, but maybe can get away with one or two

Good
- Some people will love it
- it provides great entertainment value in streams with fresh strats and strategic elements.
- esoc would benefit from increased entertainment value in a tournament.
- important: as long as a tournament is featured as a kind of "adapt to win" themed tournament, people would probably be okay with it.

Conclusion
Love it

[HUMMAN]

Yes but i dont like your some approach like food nothing gold nothing like aoe2. Its too crazy imo. There is settler massacre for that. I like outpost wagon most. Its probably not that unbalanced yet can result in interesting strats.
My approach:
If you can change make weird (op)natives/tech. Like for 200 w 200 g infantry siege +%100 whoah suddenly a new game.
Cold map, in certain areas your units loss health in time.
So i kinda like offical approach like saguenay(an eco building) siberia texas i think they are cool maps.

[deleted_user0]

- A map where all the good resources are in the middle (berries and trees in base, gold mines/hunts in a "valley" in the middle)

reminds me of rockies lol.

[deleted_user0]

Bad
- a majority tend to avoid currently existing "crazy" maps for ranked play, sticking to very basic style maps.
- Some crazy maps will likely reward some civs more than others, and therefore see very few civs featured.
- having a regular tournament with crazy maps mixed in would likely bring tons of complaints, but maybe can get away with one or two

Good
- Some people will love it
- it provides great entertainment value in streams with fresh strats and strategic elements.
- esoc would benefit from increased entertainment value in a tournament.
- important: as long as a tournament is featured as a kind of "adapt to win" themed tournament, people would probably be okay with it.

Conclusion
Love it

i would say tournaments is really the only time u can play these kinds of maps. because if you do them randomly, theres simply no way to balance all civs on all maps. but i would like some new maps.

[kami_ryu]

No hunts, no gold maybe crazy. but maybe an island map. or idk.

Brood War has that too.

[BrookG]

No hunts, no gold maybe crazy. but maybe an island map. or idk.

Brood War has that too.

no hunts was the starvation tourney

[Gendarme]

We need a SM tournament. @risi123 approves. (Ironically, risi is the guy who doesn't like risisources.)

[WickedCossack]

https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?t=9200

I've played this berry map made by @Dankl quite a few times. Very nice.

And you start with an outpost wagon. Two points ticked off already!

[Garja]

Nah we don't need crazy maps. We just need to put players in the condition to play different strats on the existing maps. Right now a good number of maps aren't really that explored.
But for real, how funny is it that whenever I tried to make semi-unhortodox maps they have been always criticized (look at tibet-klondike)

- A map without hunts (berries/fish instead) cascade range?
- A map without any gold this one is tough, especially without a buff to xbows. Hf vs japan, russia or twc civs
- A map where you start with an outpost wagon outpost wagon didn't tought about that, but I guess a Grand canyon map could make use of it (if it ever comes out)
- A map where all the good resources are in the middle (berries and trees in base, gold mines/hunts in a "valley" in the middle) klondike?
- A map where you start with fishing boats instead of vills (maybe 1 to pick up crates) I don't think this is possible, vills come with the the starting TC (explorers don't). Addition fishing boats or a dock wagon can be done.

I want a map like silk road. Such that you can get buildings by killing their guardians: factories, military buildings, etc. But then again it turns more of a scenario-like maps

I have a silk road trade route map in mind. Not too fancy tho.

[deleted_user0]

i like tibet. klondike needs a bit of tweaking imo. i think the tc's are too close to the edge of the map. you can't really go anywhere to hide, and the hunts in base arent that great. should have a lil bit more space behind tc

[Garja]

i like tibet. klondike needs a bit of tweaking imo. i think the tc's are too close to the edge of the map. you can't really go anywhere to hide, and the hunts in base arent that great. should have a lil bit more space behind tc

It is intended to not have that much space behind TC. All ESOC maps have lot of space behind TC. If you look back at RE maps, most of them has none.

[deleted_user0]

i know its not intended to have it. but thats what i dont like about it. i think not having space at the back OR the side, is bad. on klondike you kinda have neither. in that regard its kinda similar to a bad spawn of auracania, very long and quite narrow, but the river and cliffs cut you off even more on klondike.

[BrookG]

A small invitational tourney or a showmatch with some crazy maps would be an interesting event

[ChewSick]

very good idea, although i fear that some civs will just dominate some maps completely. lika india on the "resources in middle map"

[Garja]

i know its not intended to have it. but thats what i dont like about it. i think not having space at the back OR the side, is bad. on klondike you kinda have neither. in that regard its kinda similar to a bad spawn of auracania, very long and quite narrow, but the river and cliffs cut you off even more on klondike.

well it is supposed to be like araucania. You do have the corner behind the river. In any case forces to play more aggressive. And thi theme has even been tuned down adding more hunts and a 2nd mine.

[Goodspeed]

A small invitational tourney or a showmatch with some crazy maps would be an interesting event

I think, rather than treating it as a special thing, we should get serious with it. Actually put in some effort to design a bunch of gimmicky but relatively balanced (it would be nice if there are at least 2 viable civs on each one) maps and feature them in major events.

[Mitoe]

I've always wanted to have a map where each player spawns with 2 TCs

[BrookG]

A small invitational tourney or a showmatch with some crazy maps would be an interesting event

I think, rather than treating it as a special thing, we should get serious with it. Actually put in some effort to design a bunch of gimmicky but relatively balanced (it would be nice if there are at least 2 viable civs on each one) maps and feature them in major events.

Maybe, the only issue is that there have been so many debates about the standardness of some maps and their potential in a competitive setting. It's hard to say how well they are going to be perceived; maps like Bonnie Springs, Cascade Range, Herald Island, Klondike, Tassili, Wadmalaw, maybe even Alaska, have had bad critique on the difficulty to play standard on those. Note here that I am not saying that they are badly designed, whether they have certain flaws or that I personally don't like the maps. Alaska and Cascade Range are some of my favourite.

My perspective is to consider ideas for entertaining events and more diverse activity of the eso-community.

[HUMMAN]

But there is a question i wonder. To what extend it is possible to make balanced unstandart map. @Garja