Pull" Trick" discussion

[gibson]

Its blatant bug abuse, just as bad as alt D or abusing a units special ability. Prove me wrong.

[Cometk]

nothing wrong with it

[deleted_user]

nothing wrong with it

[gibson]

nothing wrong with it

So you're saying its not a bug? So developers intended all units to be able to move as fast as the fastest unit grouped with them?

[rsy]

nothing wrong with it

So you're saying its not a bug? So developers intended all units to be able to move as fast as the fastest unit grouped with them?

i dont think thats quite how it works but nevertheless its a fantastic trick that can turn fights and games. does it amount to bug abuse idk bout that brotha

[Ashvin]

nothing wrong with it

So you're saying its not a bug? So developers intended all units to be able to move as fast as the fastest unit grouped with them?

Yes, it is intended. If you look in the game folder for a file which stores unit stats, there is a field called velocity which is the normal speed of the unit and then there is something called max velocity which is only used in situations like pulls. So yes it is intended, it is legit, it is skillful. IDK if this thread is a troll post, but this won't help. I'm sure I'll see many idiots reading your thread and then complain on eso when I use pull.

[gibson]

Well its not skillful. Anyone who knows someone who knows how to do it and have 5 minutes can learn. Also just because a unit has a "max speed" doesnt mean its intended for any unit to go as fast as the fastest unit you have, thats just stupid and you'd have to be an idiot to believe that. It's natural for units to walk a little bit faster sometimes when they have to "catch up" to the rest of their group, which is why its there. Its a clearly broken mechanic that is just barely ever used and fortunately I doubt anyone is good enough to be able to abuse it to it's full potential.

[deleted_user]

I can't figure it out still, tbh

[Snuden]

I assume it is more complicated than dragbox your cav and falcs (and a few leftover musks) in one large group.

[evilcheadar]

Don't bother with making determinations about what the developers intended. The game as sold is canon. That's why alt+d is a game mechanic and building rotate is a cheat. Modifying game files is cheatin'

[Ashvin]

Well its not skillful. Anyone who knows someone who knows how to do it and have 5 minutes can learn. Also just because a unit has a "max speed" doesnt mean its intended for any unit to go as fast as the fastest unit you have, thats just stupid and you'd have to be an idiot to believe that. It's natural for units to walk a little bit faster sometimes when they have to "catch up" to the rest of their group, which is why its there. Its a clearly broken mechanic that is just barely ever used and fortunately I doubt anyone is good enough to be able to abuse it to it's full potential.

Okay it's not skillful, but it's not broken as well. It doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage because it can be used with any unit and any civ. And for the record Kaiser did abuse it to its full potential in a stream few days ago where he pulled 5 canons from urumi by his fusiliers.

[GiBthedurrty]

pull trick doesnt work for me asdf

[Mitoe]

lol

[gibson]

Well its not skillful. Anyone who knows someone who knows how to do it and have 5 minutes can learn. Also just because a unit has a "max speed" doesnt mean its intended for any unit to go as fast as the fastest unit you have, thats just stupid and you'd have to be an idiot to believe that. It's natural for units to walk a little bit faster sometimes when they have to "catch up" to the rest of their group, which is why its there. Its a clearly broken mechanic that is just barely ever used and fortunately I doubt anyone is good enough to be able to abuse it to it's full potential.

Okay it's not skillful, but it's not broken as well. It doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage because it can be used with any unit and any civ. And for the record Kaiser did abuse it to its full potential in a stream few days ago where he pulled 5 canons from urumi by his fusiliers.

just cause something doesn't give an unfair advantage does not mean it's not bug abuse. And no kaiser did not use it anywhere near to its full potential. Imagine training one huss and having 7 speed skirms the rest of the game. Now like I said I doubt anyone currently playing is good enough to be able to do that, but the point still stands. It's unintended by the developers(undebatable), the game is not balanced with this mechanic in mind, and it's not the way the game is meant to be played. No wait nevermind I forgot that every unit is supposed to be as fast as your fastest unit on the field

[gibson]

I can't figure it out still, tbh

Look tom can do it I'm sure you could figure it out if someone bothered to show you how

[Mitoe]

Well seeing as skirmishers have a max velocity stat of 6, you're right, no one can abuse 7 speed skirmishers. Anyway the mechanic is definitely good for the game, regardless of whether or not the mechanic was intended to be used the way it is right now.

I don't really see how it's comparable to Alt-D (not even a mechanic, just blatant bug abuse) or Crackshot Cancelling. It feels a lot more organic and natural than those two, for sure.

[rsy]

this trick requires more units of higher speed doesnt it? like 10 hus and 9 or less skirms or somethin like that? ive seen units get slower instead of faster at times too despite not being snared

[Gendarme]

It slows down the group in the front and speeds up the one in the back usually, but if the front group is too small it only slows them down without speeding up the back group, I think.

[gibson]

Well seeing as skirmishers have a max velocity stat of 6, you're right, no one can abuse 7 speed skirmishers. Anyway the mechanic is definitely good for the game, regardless of whether or not the mechanic was intended to be used the way it is right now.

I don't really see how it's comparable to Alt-D (not even a mechanic, just blatant bug abuse) or Crackshot Cancelling. It feels a lot more organic and natural than those two, for sure.

Genuinly curious how is it good for the game?

[Gendarme]

tfw this thread started out as a joke but is now completely serious

[deleted_user]

tfw this thread started out as a joke but is now completely serious

Why should 1) affect the fruition of 2)???

[Mitoe]

@rsy they don't need to have higher speed to pull other units to them, there just needs to be more of them. You can pull with groups of equal mass but it's not very consistent; you have to kind of click at the right angle and distance or something weird. This is why it can be so difficult to pull off with an explorer and a scout sometimes for example. So if you have equal numbers (e.g. 8 musketeers and 8 skirmishers), you actually want to deselect one unit of the group you want to pull, then pull the last unit after. If you try to pull equal numbers and it fails, or try to pull a larger group with a smaller group, then the group in front will slow to a crawl while the slower units catch up (except that they don't accelerate in this case).

What having higher speed does for you is let you pull units over large distances by pulling, then detaching the fast-moving units, and then pulling again once the slower units have finished sprinting.

@gibson It's good in the sense that it adds more skill expression to the game.

[deleted_user]

Gives us a fresh breath of the previously ubiquitous mele mechanic, a breath control-group-less players like Aiz have been breathing all along.

[gibson]

Sorry but introducing a mechanic that involves a tiny bit of skill at the cost of changing the balance of the entire game is not a good trade. Surely you saw what kaiser did with saving 4 mispositioned falcs from a certain death and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I guess I'll just have to wait for someone to start heavily abusing it before people realize how broken it is.

[Mitoe]

You're exaggerating. No one is abusing it to the fullest extent, that's for sure, but it's not going to break game balance. The majority of instances in which it's most useful involve pulling infantry, and you can only pull infantry effectively if you have a larger group of cavalry with which to pull them. Not to mention that you can only select 50 units at a time, so at most you can only pull groups of 20-24 units, and while it's theoretically possible to pull more than that if you are really good at splitting up your groups doing this effectively while also keeping the larger group significantly ahead of the units being pulled in order to repeat the process is nearly--if not actually--impossible.

At most the best way the mechanic could be abused harder right now is by frequently using small groups of cavalry and skirmishers to continually harass enemy units and then pull them to safety and repeat over and over, but on top of this being very difficult to do, it's only relevant if your opponent doesn't also have skirmishers.