Pull" Trick" discussion

[HUMMAN]

if you dont want the pull trick in combats to espace/catch, reduce range resist when speed is above normal speed.

[princeofkabul]

Anyone has ever tried pull trick with india inspiration effect ? idk if it breaks this max speed, if it's the case there is maybe some funny moves to test with urumi .

The max speed also gets boosted by any speed boost, so that it stays proportional. For example skirms with +10% speed from the arsenal would get a speed of 4.4 (instead of 4) and a max speed of 6.6 (instead of 6), so the max speed is still an extra 50%.

Well it ain't hard to do either, just a matter synchronizing it to your gameplay.
I'm having difficulties dragboxing my army comp because I got used to play with multiple groups and sometimes it would be more productive to dragbox than 3-4 group control.

Well it's easy to do a basic pull trick by just dragboxing your stuff together. But if you really want your units to run as fast as possible, in the correct direction, without slowing down too much the "pulling" group of units too much, it's harder. And if you wanna keep your units running (longer than the 5-10 sec of sprint you get by doing a basic pull trick), it's way harder.
But yes, I agree that overall it's not super hard to do. To be fair though, nothing is super hard to do in aoe3, micro wise. What's hard is to sync everything together and to be really fast and accurate. For example I use both control groups and dragbox to pull trick, and imo it does take skill to sync these together properly.

amen

[macacoalbino]

I guess it stopped being refreshing when rdm cpts are doing it idk

Sry, I won’t do it anymore :(

[gibson]

Yea it makes sense that the ability is there,and it's clearly there so that units can catch to other units,not so that you can drag vils across half the map at 6.5 speed

So what would your suggestion be?

Just like alt D and the unit special ability glitch, I think it should be frowned upon and that "respectable" players won't do it.

[gibson]

Btw i think you shouldn't complain about that when you're casting on ESOCTV

Yea that wasnt appropriate and I apologized right after I said it.

[supahons]

I find it funny that after years kaiser put some effort in this and now we have advanced kiting. I'm sure everyone has noticed the unit speed up while playing before, but didn't know why it exactly happens. I think it unlocks an escape option with skill + the right timing. If it changes age3 to huss/skirm + pulltrick now, then there's probably a need to change that.

The 1+1 pull trick usually works the second time and has a (low/high depending on your skill) chance of failure the first time. It definitely would be entertaining to see a explorer + dog/scout running around in age1. (the skill to master this is a next level) An AI with this trick would be quite unstoppable (sth like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAu1ZsTCA64)

[Kaiserklein]

Just like alt D and the unit special ability glitch, I think it should be frowned upon and that "respectable" players won't do it.

These are forbidden in tourney. Not just frowned upon. Only reason why it's still allowed to do them on EP is that removing these glitches has a cost, because currently the devs aren't able to simply fix them. They would have to use some workarounds which have are not worth it (for example no more hotkeys for changing stances of explorers to fix alt+d).
But it's literally impossible to remove the pull trick, or even to make it forbidden in tourneys, since it's part of the formations system. Even "frowning upon" the pull trick would be impossible since it will always happen accidentally.

[Kaiserklein]

I find it funny that after years kaiser put some effort in this

I'd like to point out that it's @Mitoe who originally talked to me about the pull trick, like 2 years ago. I already noticed that units sprint towards each other in a group, but didn't really think about using it. And I didn't put effort, I just played the game and pulled units. Just wanted to make that clear :p

[macacoalbino]

You could actually fix it by making the units max speed equal to its normal speed. That way I’d imagine that the forward group would always slow down allowing the on in the back to catch up.
Well, assuming you actually need to fix it

[supahons]

@Kaiserklein You've made it more popular again with your micro videos, i'm aware that some players knew about it before. After some months we have another "oh this is so broken" thread now. I'm sure this isn't the last one.

[Kaiserklein]

@macacoalbino No because if units don't run to catch up, they will just not group properly and it's gonna be impossible to control units

@supahons Ok I see

[gibson]

I mean you can tell when people do it on accident vs on purpose. Iv played like 2 thousand hours in aoe and i have never once used it, or have I seen anyone else use it, like you used with the musk and falc( not saying there was anything wrong with you doing that, just saying its not like you can just accidentally use it to great advantage)

[zoom]

It is likely a bug, but it is a fair and skillful one, as far as I can tell. Same as Wall pillar deletion.

[Ashvin]

It is likely a bug, but it is a fair and skillful one, as far as I can tell. Same as Wall pillar deletion.

You might have great game knowledge as some may claim, but here you are wrong or maybe you just don't know what actually a bug is.

[Kaiserklein]

I mean you can tell when people do it on accident vs on purpose. Iv played like 2 thousand hours in aoe and i have never once used it, or have I seen anyone else use it, like you used with the musk and falc( not saying there was anything wrong with you doing that, just saying its not like you can just accidentally use it to great advantage)

Piroshiki pulls units all the time because hes just dragboxing all the time. Sometimes it looks like it's on purpose (I even remember H2O believing that piroshiki was doing the pull trick with his dog + explo).
Anyway, you won't be able to set a clear limit for that, and that's a problem in tourneys. Someone can always pretend he pulled accidentally by just dragboxing his units all together (maybe not to pull 4 falcs, but still).

I think it would be better to nerf this mechanic (if it's proven to be op and game breaking in a negative way), instead of trying to ban it. For example by reducing the max distance between 2 units for the pull trick to work, or by nerfing the max speed to 25% extra instead of 50%.

[gibson]

I've never seen piro doing anything other than normal dragbox. I understand you can't set a limit on it since it ties in so closely to a standard game mechanic; however, like I said its blatantly obvious when its being abused vs when its just regular dragbox. I have no idea how you could nerf it without negatively effecting the game since I don't know anything about the coding in the game. Maybe that could work. For now I'm just not going to use and it going forward I'm going to think poorly about people who do.

[Kaiserklein]

Well that's your choice I guess. I'm always going to use it, unless it gets banned, which it won't.

[Ashvin]

I pull my indian explorers almost all the time.

[macacoalbino]

@macacoalbino No because if units don't run to catch up, they will just not group properly and it's gonna be impossible to control units

@supahons Ok I see

How so?

[Ashvin]

@macacoalbino No because if units don't run to catch up, they will just not group properly and it's gonna be impossible to control units

@supahons Ok I see

How so?

because two units running at same speed in same direction will always have constant distance between them.

[Jerimuno]

just a quick example for some great ... abuse? of the pull trick
https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyProductiv ... WholeWheat

[supahons]

@Ashvin i think it's sarcasm "It is likely a bug ..."
@Jerimuno

pull trick - every conscript does it unintentionally because it's just how the game works (unit formation and units follow up) you have to change it somehow on EP if needed, on RE it will probably be used more and more until it's standard

wall macro - "cheating" in this game because it isn't widely used and accepted, you have to edit the gamefiles and gain an unfair advantage (improved hotkeys)
i think building rotator is the accepted version by comparison (exception tournaments)

[deleted_user0]

Tbh people who will abuse this regularly, I will start alt+d vs them

[Guigs]

just a quick example for some great ... abuse? of the pull trick
https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyProductiv ... WholeWheat

What about people using the CS glitch to take the treasure faster and with less damage on hero ? It's even worse, i would do the same trick as Hazza all day long vs that

[macacoalbino]

@macacoalbino No because if units don't run to catch up, they will just not group properly and it's gonna be impossible to control units

@supahons Ok I see

How so?

because two bodies running at same speed in same direction will always have constant distance between them.

Wouldnt the units upfront slow down? Just like when you have less units in front and group everything together. If not, wouldnt it be possible to make a rule that this action always hapens regardless of how many units are in front and how many are in the back?