Well this is a great move. I like it and I think it would be a shame to remove this. What I don't understand is that the same people clame mechanics are too ez in aoe3 but complain about this kind of stuff. Also even though I have played tons of games vs Kaiser, I never felt I lost a game to him due to pull trick. Even on this now famous clip where kaiser saves his falc, I don't think it was the most important part of the game. Overall I have never seen a pull trick deciding a game alone, just because it's not something you can do all the time. Pull trick just gives a very small advantage.
Kaiserklein wrote:@macacoalbino No because if units don't run to catch up, they will just not group properly and it's gonna be impossible to control units
because two bodies running at same speed in same direction will always have constant distance between them.
Wouldnt the units upfront slow down? Just like when you have less units in front and group everything together. If not, wouldnt it be possible to make a rule that this action always hapens regardless of how many units are in front and how many are in the back?
I think if units running faster than their "usual" velocity is considered bad/"bug" idk why would people want their units to walk slow than their usual velocity as well. That kinda like defeats the whole purpose of this thread. Not that I agree to it in any way.
zoom wrote:It is likely a bug, but it is a fair and skillful one, as far as I can tell. Same as Wall pillar deletion.
You might have great game knowledge as some may claim, but here you are wrong or maybe you just don't know what actually a bug is.
Some may be nuts.
As far as I'm concerned, the definition of a bug is an unintended feature. How do you know it isn't one?
That's the reason why I used "maybe". But as told many times in this thread, the max velocity field in the proto files is made for this purpose only, which should clear that this feature is a planned one. Intended feature and a legal move in the game.
Sorry but if you think that feature is in there so that you can drag falcs across the map at 6 speed instead of so that a skirm can catch up to its group of units you're just stupid. You can tell that its for the latter not only because you can't drag 10 units with 1, but also because it defeats the purpose of having a low set speed in the first place. Units having a set speed is a standard feature in age of empires, abusing the pull feature circumvents that standard feature and is clearly and obviously not intended by developers.
Obviously the feature is intended, as there is no technical difference between a normal army formation and this "pull trick". The question is if the power of this mechanic was overlooked or significantly underestimated by the designers of the game, to which the answer is probably yes.
gibson wrote:Sorry but if you think that feature is in there so that you can drag falcs across the map at 6 speed instead of so that a skirm can catch up to its group of units you're just stupid. You can tell that its for the latter not only because you can't drag 10 units with 1, but also because it defeats the purpose of having a low set speed in the first place. Units having a set speed is a standard feature in age of empires, abusing the pull feature circumvents that standard feature and is clearly and obviously not intended by developers.
Your every argument has been answered, if you wanna make personal remarks now then I will not participate in this discussion any further. But just so you know, saying things like "its similar to alt-d", "i'm gonna use alt-d who uses pull trick" is not at all fair.
sorry but if devs intended to make falcs to have same speed as cav then they also inteded that alt+d is a legit way of reviving "pull trick gives just a small advantage" so does alt+d. it doesn't auto win games but it can make huge differences just like pull cheat
You havent answered shit, however you have been rude and condescending since your very first post. No one has once said "im gonna use alt-d when people use pull trick". You have contributed nothing productive towards the discussion, so I hope you don't participate more. Looking forward to seeing contributions to this thread from people who actually have something to contribute, so basically not you.
Mitoe wrote:You're exaggerating. No one is abusing it to the fullest extent, that's for sure, but it's not going to break game balance. The majority of instances in which it's most useful involve pulling infantry, and you can only pull infantry effectively if you have a larger group of cavalry with which to pull them. Not to mention that you can only select 50 units at a time, so at most you can only pull groups of 20-24 units, and while it's theoretically possible to pull more than that if you are really good at splitting up your groups doing this effectively while also keeping the larger group significantly ahead of the units being pulled in order to repeat the process is nearly--if not actually--impossible.
At most the best way the mechanic could be abused harder right now is by frequently using small groups of cavalry and skirmishers to continually harass enemy units and then pull them to safety and repeat over and over, but on top of this being very difficult to do, it's only relevant if your opponent doesn't also have skirmishers.
sorry didn't see this. Yes game breaking was not the correct term. It will be meta changing if it becomes common use. On top of what you mentioned it makes low range skirms worse, cannons much stronger,completely changes age 1 when someone gets a 2nd unit or in any game that has a civ with 2 explorers, makes raiding lower benefit and higher risk, and I'm sure many other things that I haven't thought of
I think it's a positive mechanic as it raises the skill ceiling for the game as opposed to alt-d (free gift after you screwed up) and the crackshot bug (just pick up treasures without worrying about enemy position and scouting patterns). It gives players with the extra apm room to outmicro more than they could already.
Considering the developers coded in running animations for nearly all units I think it's safe to say it's not a bug. Feels worlds apart than leaving an obscure hotkey shortcut to revive an explorer. I doubt they'd forseen the extent of how can you can use it to micro though.
I remember that you had to alternate between Alt-S and Alt-D for the explorer to revive, but these days it's just Alt-D. Did RE release a patch that changed this? Does anyone remember?
Gendarme wrote:I remember that you had to alternate between Alt-S and Alt-D for the explorer to revive, but these days it's just Alt-D. Did RE release a patch that changed this? Does anyone remember?
You just have to change the formation. Most likely that after you pressed alt+D, you changed the formation again by clicking on a formation button.
The problem with every game is that at some point the players find so many glitches and exploits that it becomes nearly unplayable without new patches or rule changes. Example: Speedruns - there are different categories like any% (complete asap), tool assisted, glitchless. Then the community has to decide what's acceptable and what isn't. Developers/game designers can't plan or test everything in advance.
I dont disagree that it raises the skill ceiling, but I don't think that's relevant. Also letting cannons move at 6 speed is an unintended side effect of a current mechanic. The ven though it results from a standard game mechanic, the fact that it's clearly an unintended feature that causes units to behave in non standard ways qualifies it as a bug.
This thread reminds me of lower-ranking players who accuse me of cheating when I micro my units. Clearly because kiting or microing individual units changes the balance of the game it should be considered cheating.
@Mitoe I don’t think we can affirm it is cheating. However it can be thought of as a mechanic that is a lot more powerfull than what we have thought initially. If thats the case we can simply nerf the max speed of the units and see what happens. For example skirms with 4.5 max speed would be able to kite musks just as they do now, but wouldnt be able to run from cavalry halfway across the map
Nerfing the max speed to 4.5 would make the pull trick essentially useless. Also would break some unit formations: imagine trying to group a bunch of crossbows together with pikemen, the formation would always be broken because the crossbows don't have enough speed to catch up to the pikes. (edit: actually, I guess this is not the case, afterall grouping units together with cavalry still works because it slows the cav from 6.75 speed to 6 speed to compensate for the infantry's max speed)
I don't really see why this would need to be changed: the mechanic is clearly good, yes, but the situations in which you can use it effectively are still limited.
Mitoe wrote:This thread reminds me of lower-ranking players who accuse me of cheating when I micro my units. Clearly because kiting or microing individual units changes the balance of the game it should be considered cheating.
Come on that's not a fair comparison and you know it.
