Increasing number of cheaters!?

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Brazil lemmings121
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by lemmings121 »

CaRp wrote:[spoiler=quote]
Kaiserklein wrote:And anyway the real reason is that you guys decided that having a cheater list is bad because it brings negativity and witch hunts, not that you don't have people to care about the list (if you would ask for volunteers, I'm sure it would be easy to find. I volunteered myself already). Meanwhile, it just looks like you're protecting cheaters more than anything else.

The negativity and witch hunts thing is indeed a common argument and something that some (staff) members share. I personally think that won't be an issue as long as the accusations are properly dealt with (anonymous evidence, posted in a private board and judged by a team). I encourage you to create a thread to propose a team to the community and ask them if they trust this team with handling a ban list. Even if the staff/community decides they don't want a public ban list (which I think is unlikely, but I haven't polled it recently), you can always create a server with that team and post a ban list in an online Google Doc.

Saying we are protecting cheaters is telling half the truth. We are also protecting fair players from being falsely accused as well as protecting the positivity and environment in the community.

protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14177&p=300080&hilit=carp#p300080

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but that is not important for the "redact"

obvious that try to upload rec and ss but that was eliminated
Sin título.png
[/spoiler]


so wait, what actually happaned in that case? how did you out gatter everyone with 30 vills?
--
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by lemmings121 »

about the ban list.. Can we ban people from using EP? or the list would be just so that the information is avaiable?
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by spanky4ever »

lemmings121 wrote:

so wait, what actually happaned in that case? how did you out gatter everyone with 30 vills?
--


YEAH :o tell us your secrets please, cos the stats are really confusing to me :shock:
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

lemmings121 wrote:about the ban list.. Can we ban people from using EP? or the list would be just so that the information is avaiable?

Traditionally, the idea's been that banning RE cheaters from EP doesn't make much sense, since they aren't supposed to be able to cheat there anyway.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by spanky4ever »

iwillspankyou wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:

so wait, what actually happaned in that case? how did you out gatter everyone with 30 vills?
--


YEAH :o tell us your secrets please, cos the stats are really confusing to me :shock:


@CaRp its interesting that you are not responding. I would say you posted an obvious cheat, and you called it a fair game, where you where targeted. :uglylol:
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by zoom »

CaRp wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
CaRp wrote:And anyway the real reason is that you guys decided that having a cheater list is bad because it brings negativity and witch hunts, not that you don't have people to care about the list (if you would ask for volunteers, I'm sure it would be easy to find. I volunteered myself already). Meanwhile, it just looks like you're protecting cheaters more than anything else.

The negativity and witch hunts thing is indeed a common argument and something that some (staff) members share. I personally think that won't be an issue as long as the accusations are properly dealt with (anonymous evidence, posted in a private board and judged by a team). I encourage you to create a thread to propose a team to the community and ask them if they trust this team with handling a ban list. Even if the staff/community decides they don't want a public ban list (which I think is unlikely, but I haven't polled it recently), you can always create a server with that team and post a ban list in an online Google Doc.

Saying we are protecting cheaters is telling half the truth. We are also protecting fair players from being falsely accused as well as protecting the positivity and environment in the community.


protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14177&p=300080&hilit=carp#p300080

but that is not important for the "redact"

obvious that try to upload rec and ss but that was eliminated
Sin título.png
How thoroughly unfair! I, for one, am outraged!
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by zoom »

lemmings121 wrote:about the ban list.. Can we ban people from using EP? or the list would be just so that the information is avaiable?
We can, but we prefer to tell everyone cheaters cannot cheat on EP.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

  • Quote

Post by CaRp »

iwillspankyou wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:

so wait, what actually happaned in that case? how did you out gatter everyone with 30 vills?
--


YEAH :o tell us your secrets please, cos the stats are really confusing to me :shock:


@CaRp its interesting that you are not responding. I would say you posted an obvious cheat, and you called it a fair game, where you where targeted. :uglylol:


4 games

just just spam shipments for upgrade vills. it is not so difficult

https://youtu.be/C26bwiWx4M4
https://youtu.be/8lHkg3Gj0Yc
https://youtu.be/m6v5ExItUQI
https://youtu.be/HmJbhJ01G9I
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kickass_OP »

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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by VooDoo_BoSs »

CaRp wrote: protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

but that is not important for the "redact"

obvious that try to upload rec and ss but that was eliminated
Sin título.png


Hazza is General52.

You were blocked by half the community, not because of this one graph, but because any game that is not rec'd you magically seem to have the most resources and 17-minute imperial, despite having the least number of vills. When games are rec'd, you are routinely the poorest player in the game.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Sargsyan »

VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
CaRp wrote: protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

but that is not important for the "redact"

obvious that try to upload rec and ss but that was eliminated
Sin título.png


Hazza is General52.

You were blocked by half the community, not because of this one graph, but because any game that is not rec'd you magically seem to have the most resources and 17-minute imperial, despite having the least number of vills. When games are rec'd, you are routinely the poorest player in the game.

Hey its me, the guy who spawned 1000c! Im truly thankful u still didn't accuse me of cheating
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by VooDoo_BoSs »

Sargsyan wrote:
VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
CaRp wrote: protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

but that is not important for the "redact"

obvious that try to upload rec and ss but that was eliminated
Sin título.png


Hazza is General52.

You were blocked by half the community, not because of this one graph, but because any game that is not rec'd you magically seem to have the most resources and 17-minute imperial, despite having the least number of vills. When games are rec'd, you are routinely the poorest player in the game.

Hey its me, the guy who spawned 1000c! Im truly thankful u still didn't accuse me of cheating


Hey!

I didn't accuse you. I asked if you had scouted something and you said you MH. I didn't realise you were joking.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by edeholland »

CaRp wrote: protecting fair players?
I was blocked by half the community. for a post of the lord hazza123.. in a game that did he not play.

Which is why we should remove all accusations, even if they appear "obvious" to some people. The screens posted about you also seemed "obvious" to certain people, while it's clearly not that simple.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kaiserklein »

edeholland wrote:I am not telling you to make a thread polling whether people want a ban list or not, it seems clear to me that most (non-staff?) members want one. I am suggesting you make a thread where you present a team of people who want to maintain the ban list. The most important thing is that the community trusts this team to make the right decisions. It doesn't matter whether the list is posted on ESOC, a Google Doc or in a "anti-cheat" Discord server, what matters is that the community is supporting the idea & the team.

If there is a team of people who wants to do this, I will give you a shitload of screenshots, recordings and YouTube videos you can analyse. Whether the results of your findings can be implemented in EP, posted on ESOC or just posted outside of ESOC is something I can't currently tell you (because I can't & shouldn't decide that by myself), but it shouldn't matter. A cheat list shared in Hazza's Team EP Games Discord server should be just as legitimate as one shared on this website, as long as the team & their practices are legit.

Of course it matters... The point of having a cheater list is to warn as many players as possible. If it's posted in a discord with 50 dudes inside, it has basically no impact. ESOC is the obvious place to host such a list and reach a lot of players. Plus people will trust a list on ESOC more easily than a random list on some google doc.

Basically ESOC just needs to get the balls to host that list. There's nothing else preventing it from happening.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kaiserklein »

edeholland wrote:Which is why we should remove all accusations, even if they appear "obvious" to some people. The screens posted about you also seemed "obvious" to certain people, while it's clearly not that simple.

Well yea that's the job of the community team. Don't redact some cheating accusations while letting some others, without any apparent reason. At least redacting them all would be consistent, even if it would still be stupid
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by supahons »

edeholland wrote:Which is why we should remove all accusations, even if they appear "obvious" to some people. The screens posted about you also seemed "obvious" to certain people, while it's clearly not that simple.


Sure, but this is a case of unsportsmanlike behavior in a game and not a murder case. If you need a judge, jury and court to find out that somebody is potentially an asshole, then idk what to say. You probably also have to redact all discussions like xyz cheated again, should we ever forgive xyz + poll + make fun threads immediately. They certainly do more harm than a picture of fluffy. Idk where you draw the line and i don't think you can prevent it. That's why i have suggested you take this kind of discussions to a new gossip category and dump these threads there. If people have time to trashtalk, then they can do it all day. It won't be on the ESOC frontpage anymore and won't draw this much attention.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Frost Bite »

Interesting, people still look into this issue.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by guyshir »

Kaiserklein wrote:Of course it matters... The point of having a cheater list is to warn as many players as possible. If it's posted in a discord with 50 dudes inside, it has basically no impact. ESOC is the obvious place to host such a list and reach a lot of players. Plus people will trust a list on ESOC more easily than a random list on some google doc.

I said similar thing 1.5 years back
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Papist »

Kaiserklein wrote:Of course it matters... The point of having a cheater list is to warn as many players as possible. If it's posted in a discord with 50 dudes inside, it has basically no impact. ESOC is the obvious place to host such a list and reach a lot of players. Plus people will trust a list on ESOC more easily than a random list on some google doc.

Basically ESOC just needs to get the balls to host that list. There's nothing else preventing it from happening.

The point of a cheater list is for people who are angry about being cheated to let off steam and feel like they have some recourse against cheaters. An understandable sentiment, but not a wise use of finite ESOC resources.

That is the reason (along with the witch hunt factor) that a lot of staff are opposed to a blacklist, not because we "want to protect cheaters" or "have no balls". I get that you strongly disagree with us on this issue, but at least take the time to understand why we are opposed to a list instead of impugning our integrity.
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by frostibite »

There is really no reason why ESOC would NOT have a cheaters list as long as it's based on extremely hard evidence. Hard evidence is very easy to generate especially for spawn hack. Maphack on the other hand would be a bit harder to sell people on
There should at least be a unit spawn cheater list since it's easy to detect
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by frostibite »

For each cheater there would be a hyperlink to screenshotted evidence that they used a hack. simple as that. If there is no evidence that can be SS then basically there is not enough evidencr to throw them in the list
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Papist wrote:The point of a cheater list is for people who are angry about being cheated to let off steam and feel like they have some recourse against cheaters. An understandable sentiment, but not a wise use of finite ESOC resources.

That is the reason (along with the witch hunt factor) that a lot of staff are opposed to a blacklist, not because we "want to protect cheaters" or "have no balls". I get that you strongly disagree with us on this issue, but at least take the time to understand why we are opposed to a list instead of impugning our integrity.

No that's just not true. Most people just want to warn others. But of course ESOC decided that a cheater list would mean only witch hunting. Like I explained a ton of times, if you had a cheater list, people would actually pm the staff instead of opening threads. And if anyone did, you could just lock it directly and say he should pm the staff to get it on the cheater list, because cheating accusations have to be checked. It would be much less negative and really useful. It would actually look less like witch hunting to me.

I know you don't want to protect cheaters lol. But sadly that's still what you're doing sometimes. And by "no balls" I mean that you're scared to handle a cheater list.
I already totally know why you're opposed to the list, I even mentioned it earlier here.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kaiserklein »

guyshir wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Of course it matters... The point of having a cheater list is to warn as many players as possible. If it's posted in a discord with 50 dudes inside, it has basically no impact. ESOC is the obvious place to host such a list and reach a lot of players. Plus people will trust a list on ESOC more easily than a random list on some google doc.

I said similar thing 1.5 years back

Tbh I think I've been arguing for a cheater list since moesbar hacks exist, as well as a lot of other people haha
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by edeholland »

So who else wants to be on the cheat analysis team? :flowers:
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Re: Increasing number of cheaters!?

Post by Kaiserklein »

I'm not in that team unless the list is hosted on esoc, and seeing papist's post it looks like we're not getting any closer to that happening.

The funniest thing is that one member of the esoc staff already hosted a cheater list on another website at some point, and he was able to handle it alone just fine, which shows that it's really not so hard. But everyone forgot about that list because guess what... it wasn't hosted on esoc!
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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