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New Zealand zoom
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17 Nov 2018, 16:50

It's high time for the post-tournament balance-poll. Your input is appreciated!

https://goo.gl/forms/z5dG6WHE7SN6z8pB3
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Nov 2018, 16:57

Garja
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
Great Britain Hazza54321
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17 Nov 2018, 17:35

The patch is too nr20
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New Zealand zoom
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17 Nov 2018, 19:12

I'll make the responses available as soon as I'm able to.
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
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No Flag ovi12
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18 Nov 2018, 01:03

Hazza54321 wrote:The patch is too nr20

Yeah it needs to be more like nr40
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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New Zealand zoom
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20 Nov 2018, 11:28

Thank you to everyone who voted, so far. Proper results (thanks to Goodspeed):

https://tinyurl.com/ycjqjrso

Full pre-tournament poll results:

https://tinyurl.com/yc5kex26
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
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United States of America Cometk
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20 Nov 2018, 11:51

@zoom bottom link prompts users to request permission to access
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New Zealand zoom
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20 Nov 2018, 12:13

My bad. Please try now.
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
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Italy Garja
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20 Nov 2018, 12:31

I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
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Netherlands edeholland
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20 Nov 2018, 12:31

Pretty good to know which civ is popular.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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20 Nov 2018, 15:52

Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
They're an indication.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Nov 2018, 15:54

But how many percent of respondents are actually high level?
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New Zealand zoom
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20 Nov 2018, 22:05

Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
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France [Armag] diarouga
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21 Nov 2018, 05:42

somppukunkku wrote:But how many percent of respondents are actually high level?

Tbh the average level of the community is higher than the level of the one guy who makes the EP changes...
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
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France Kaiserklein
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21 Nov 2018, 10:00

Well the results are clearly a bit wrong for some civs, but it gives an overall trend I guess. I'm mostly shocked about how low people still rate iro
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

iamturk:
well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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21 Nov 2018, 10:16

The "difference from previous poll" trend is a good indicator as well. It's very likely that if there is a significant trend there, it would continue in the next poll. From that you can somewhat reliably conclude which civs are under- or overrated.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
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Netherlands momuuu
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21 Nov 2018, 14:43

Opinions on balance right now are based on feelings. The balance is pretty good to the point where I dont think there are many (if any) people that can give a somewhat objective opinion.

The way people judge these civs is too flawed anyways. They dont objectively consider overall winrate but rather judge civs based on their performance in the tournament meta. Which means that a civ with little hard counters (= good first pick) will be overrated, aswell as civs that counter popular civs. Also, civs that perform well on non meta tournament maps, like india on low res/livestock/water maps or ports on water maps will be overrated.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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France bwinner1
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21 Nov 2018, 14:48

momuuu wrote:Opinions on balance right now are based on feelings. The balance is pretty good to the point where I dont think there are many (if any) people that can give a somewhat objective opinion.

The way people judge these civs is too flawed anyways. They dont objectively consider overall winrate but rather judge civs based on their performance in the tournament meta. Which means that a civ with little hard counters (= good first pick) will be overrated, aswell as civs that counter popular civs. Also, civs that perform well on non meta tournament maps, like india on low res/livestock/water maps or ports on water maps will be overrated.

We don't want a civ to be imba on a kind of map, even though it's balanced on another kind of map.
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Netherlands momuuu
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21 Nov 2018, 14:52

Theres no way to balance for all sorts of maps anyways. Its still disrupting the results either way.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Italy Garja
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21 Nov 2018, 16:36

zoom wrote:
Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.

Ye, such as voting India higher now with 80w houses than with 60w.
It's largely based on perception and perception is affected by popularity. Popularity isn't a good criteria to base balance on.
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France bwinner1
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21 Nov 2018, 17:26

Well it's more people took time to realize how OP india is. The pool still obviously shows we want a nerf to india.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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21 Nov 2018, 20:17

bwinner1 wrote:Well it's more people took time to realize how OP india is. The pool still obviously shows we want a nerf to india.

India is overrated.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
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New Zealand zoom
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21 Nov 2018, 22:40

Garja wrote:
zoom wrote:
Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.

Ye, such as voting India higher now with 80w houses than with 60w.
It's largely based on perception and perception is affected by popularity. Popularity isn't a good criteria to base balance on.
In accordance with my previous reply, I absolutely agree. It's a matter of avoiding bias and applying judgement.
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
"How does your game look so good – is it the monitor!?" – Arrogant_UP, 2017
Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 4964

21 Nov 2018, 22:52

i think sioux and fre are underated tbh and otto and port overated
VeniVidiVici_W: lol bwinner, i dont need anyone to carry me to win vs you with your noobplay
Switzerland bobabu
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21 Nov 2018, 23:08

Make Xbow stronger

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