ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

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ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

It's high time for the post-tournament balance-poll. Your input is appreciated!

https://goo.gl/forms/z5dG6WHE7SN6z8pB3
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Hazza54321 »

The patch is too nr20
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

I'll make the responses available as soon as I'm able to.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Jaeger »

Hazza54321 wrote:The patch is too nr20

Yeah it needs to be more like nr40
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

Thank you to everyone who voted, so far. Proper results (thanks to Goodspeed):

https://tinyurl.com/ycjqjrso

Full pre-tournament poll results:

https://tinyurl.com/yc5kex26
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Cometk »

@zoom bottom link prompts users to request permission to access
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

My bad. Please try now.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Garja »

I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by edeholland »

Pretty good to know which civ is popular.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Goodspeed »

Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
They're an indication.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by deleted_user0 »

But how many percent of respondents are actually high level?
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

somppukunkku wrote:But how many percent of respondents are actually high level?

Tbh the average level of the community is higher than the level of the one guy who makes the EP changes...
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well the results are clearly a bit wrong for some civs, but it gives an overall trend I guess. I'm mostly shocked about how low people still rate iro
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Goodspeed »

The "difference from previous poll" trend is a good indicator as well. It's very likely that if there is a significant trend there, it would continue in the next poll. From that you can somewhat reliably conclude which civs are under- or overrated.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by momuuu »

Opinions on balance right now are based on feelings. The balance is pretty good to the point where I dont think there are many (if any) people that can give a somewhat objective opinion.

The way people judge these civs is too flawed anyways. They dont objectively consider overall winrate but rather judge civs based on their performance in the tournament meta. Which means that a civ with little hard counters (= good first pick) will be overrated, aswell as civs that counter popular civs. Also, civs that perform well on non meta tournament maps, like india on low res/livestock/water maps or ports on water maps will be overrated.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by bwinner »

momuuu wrote:Opinions on balance right now are based on feelings. The balance is pretty good to the point where I dont think there are many (if any) people that can give a somewhat objective opinion.

The way people judge these civs is too flawed anyways. They dont objectively consider overall winrate but rather judge civs based on their performance in the tournament meta. Which means that a civ with little hard counters (= good first pick) will be overrated, aswell as civs that counter popular civs. Also, civs that perform well on non meta tournament maps, like india on low res/livestock/water maps or ports on water maps will be overrated.

We don't want a civ to be imba on a kind of map, even though it's balanced on another kind of map.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by momuuu »

Theres no way to balance for all sorts of maps anyways. Its still disrupting the results either way.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Garja »

zoom wrote:
Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.

Ye, such as voting India higher now with 80w houses than with 60w.
It's largely based on perception and perception is affected by popularity. Popularity isn't a good criteria to base balance on.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by bwinner »

Well it's more people took time to realize how OP india is. The pool still obviously shows we want a nerf to india.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:Well it's more people took time to realize how OP india is. The pool still obviously shows we want a nerf to india.

India is overrated.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by zoom »

Garja wrote:
zoom wrote:
Garja wrote:I wonder how can you take advantage of these polls when they are just a popularity contest....
I don't, because they're only a popularity contest to an extent. I actually think them helpful indicators.

Ye, such as voting India higher now with 80w houses than with 60w.
It's largely based on perception and perception is affected by popularity. Popularity isn't a good criteria to base balance on.
In accordance with my previous reply, I absolutely agree. It's a matter of avoiding bias and applying judgement.
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

Post by Hazza54321 »

i think sioux and fre are underated tbh and otto and port overated
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Re: ESOC Patch v5 Post-tournament Balance Poll

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Post by bobabu »

Make Xbow stronger

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