The problem with walls

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Tuvalu gibson
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The problem with walls

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Post by gibson »

In team on seems more and more players are just spamming 10 layers of wall to make up for the fact that theyre bad. An ez way to fix this is to just make bastion walls x50000% instead of x500%. This way there will be no reason for them to make more than 1 layer :flowers:
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by edeholland »

What do you except on Siberia though
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United States of America GiBthedurrty
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by GiBthedurrty »

Hmmmmmm me no wall in team
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Poland pecelot
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by pecelot »

bastion costs 400w 600c
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Re: The problem with walls

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Post by P i k i l i c »

These people must have high apm or sth
One of the reasons I dislike 3v3s is you almost surely have to wall at some point. Im just too lazy too wall even 1 layer its so boring and time consuming. And I feel like Im the only one to feel this on the planet.
In FFA people build 3+ layers lol. After 30 mn of playing and defeating 2 guys I happily quit the game. Remaining players for some unknown reason prefer to treaty during 2 hours (keep max units out right click in middle of lag repair wall) *352 times. So enjoyable isnt it?
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Re: The problem with walls

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Post by supahons »

Some players just enjoy turtleing, and playing 2 hour games, this isn't a problem if it's NR or FFA. Avoid Deccan in teamgames.

But then there is the "if i can't win at least i waste some time player-type". When you're bad then you can still win by making the other player ragequit.
They wall the map and play hide and seek (The 1000 vs 100 score, +20 min games ...)

AoE isn't the only game i've noticed this. I've seen this in all games with a timer too (eg chess, they don't resign when they're checkmated in one turn and go afk)
Then you have to make a decision to spend some time for the win or just resign :/
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Poland pecelot
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by pecelot »

with the way raiding works (for example not being able to rebuild factories), I don't really see anything wrong with walling --- a cost increase would do, though bear in mind that bare walls are paper-thin on EP
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea, one layer of EP walls, if you don't have bastion, is useless.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by deleted_user0 »

pecelot wrote:with the way raiding works (for example not being able to rebuild factories), I don't really see anything wrong with walling --- a cost increase would do, though bear in mind that bare walls are paper-thin on EP


No, a cost increase is bad. Make it a buildtime increase.also bastion should be age3 only
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by edeholland »

Build time increase seems very logical. Walls build extremely quickly, you can quickly build a wall when your opponent is marching towards you, rendering all previous city planning useless. You could also experiment with having to build gates instead of just clicking to turn a wall into a gate, but that may be too annoying.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: The problem with walls

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah bastion colonial is counter intuitive, since there basically aren't siege units in that age.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, one layer of EP walls, if you don't have bastion, is useless.

With ranged units behind, one layer is enough to get free kills. Definitely will pay off for the 50w cost of walling your base or whatever
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by edeholland »

lordraphael wrote:
Jerom wrote:Walls are really strong yeah. Funny how walling was considered to be noob a while back.

it is still for noobs mostly walls just take the pace out of the game and cap the skill of players because they just limit your options way to much for their cheap price
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Re: The problem with walls

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Btw walls repair basically instantly, another bs we could fix.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by Hazza54321 »

I mean 1 vill builds a wall way faster than 50 units sieging it
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by deleted_user0 »

Completely agree. Walls are something that should be designed/built before battles, not during them.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah bastion colonial is counter intuitive, since there basically aren't siege units in that age.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, one layer of EP walls, if you don't have bastion, is useless.

With ranged units behind, one layer is enough to get free kills. Definitely will pay off for the 50w cost of walling your base or whatever

I mean in late game in team games. In 1v1 walls are of course worth because they're not expensive (basically 50w), and allow you to boom more, but in team walling the map costs like 300-400w and walls don't stop 20 cuirs or 30 ashis.

By the way, I agree with Somppu that you shouldn't be able to rewall while your opponent is sieging your 1st layer.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by boyu »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah bastion colonial is counter intuitive, since there basically aren't siege units in that age.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, one layer of EP walls, if you don't have bastion, is useless.

With ranged units behind, one layer is enough to get free kills. Definitely will pay off for the 50w cost of walling your base or whatever

I mean in late game in team games. In 1v1 walls are of course worth because they're not expensive (basically 50w), and allow you to boom more, but in team walling the map costs like 300-400w and walls don't stop 20 cuirs or 30 ashis.

It's not so much the raiding element of team games where walls become OP so much as the fact that they create stalemate scenarios. You get to a point where you have to make mortars, which can't break 3 or 4 layers without your army taking losses due to being outmassed as a result of making the mortars in the first place.

That's basically what you could see in the game with Gibson yesterday... he could never fully break through, and the moment they right click his base it's gg because he hasn't got 3 layers of walls to defend his eco.
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by pecelot »

you don't, cause then the builder dies to siegers' fire
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yes the build time is insanely stupid
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Re: The problem with walls

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Post by querty »

Just for sup of course...
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by knusch »

would it be possible to have walls build without pillars at ideal length (smallest of the larger segments...) and dbl the cost and buildtime as a starting point?

right now by deleting pillars u save both costs and buildtime compared to the original design
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Re: The problem with walls

Post by edeholland »

knusch wrote:would it be possible to have walls build without pillars at ideal length (smallest of the larger segments...) and dbl the cost and buildtime as a starting point?

right now by deleting pillars u save both costs and buildtime compared to the original design

Is the smallest length the ideal length though? If your wall segments touch the damage done to one is instantly transferred to the segments next to it, making it easy to bring down a long wall. I would rather have walls that just barely don't touch.

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