Casting from recorded games

[edeholland]

We had a few conversation about it in various threads, let's continue in one thread to keep our sanity.

Here, Interjection & others discuss streaming live vs releasing a prerecorded video.

Here another discussion starts, Tabben/Diarouga/Garja saying we should cast from recs and Jerom/Eagle giving counterarguments.

Summary from what I have seen:

Pros

• Less lag issues because less players in the game (only 2 players instead of the usual 4)
• Invitespammer and ESO down are less of an issue
• If not livestreamed, downtime can be cut out, making the stream focus on the gameplay
• If live casted from replays, players can give commentary in the chat on the games & commentary
• If not casted live, players & casters can give commentary in the chat on the games & commentary
• More freedom in when games are played and casted (only have to schedule with 2 people instead of 4)
• Can pause during casting

Cons

• No real-time admin intervention
• Recorded games play at inconsistent speeds (always too slow from what I have seen)
• Only way to cast with 2 people is by screen-sharing (because of point 2)
• Screen-sharing is shitty quality
• Screen-sharing means that caster 2 doesn't have his own camera
• Recs can be overwritten or forgotten, meaning the games have to be played again
• Not actually live (not as hype)
• Result may be spoiled

Pro or con depending on your opinion

• No casters available to restart the map if the map is unfair

[edeholland]

So far, I noticed a few things
-Who are the ones advocating for casting from recs? The players.
-Who are in favor of casting like we do now (live in-game)? The casters.
-Where does that leave us? Nowhere.
-Hotel? Trivago.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Live cast is really annoying. Half of the time we have to rehost the game because the caster forgets to install his UI, which is super annoying, and the other half of the time it lags like hell, and it's almost unplayable.

[lemmings121]

Some other thing to consider: without livecasting on important games, there is noone to see if there is a missing hunt/mine. and asking your oponent for a rehost after you finally scout it at 4 mins that you indeed dont have a third hunt might be a problem.

[pecelot]

No real-time admin intervention

caster =/= admin (usually), games streamed live still require an admin available online, just as games streamed from recs

@lemmings121 , but the same issue is present is every other non-casted game --- of course it'd be nice to avoid that, but it's not that unfair compared to the rest

[deleted_user0]

Not actually live (not as hype)

This is all that matters for me. It's just not the same when it's not live.

[momuuu]

Not actually live (not as hype)

This is all that matters for me. It's just not the same when it's not live.

This wouldn't really matter as much if it was almost impossible to tell, but it is extremely clear and directly bothersome that the games are not live. The chance of seeing the results already are very large. Replays run at a godawful speed normally, and run at different speeds so cocasting is terrible.

I must say that if these aspects are somehow removed, then it actually becomes enjoyable again. I often watch sc2 streams or even ESOC streams from past broadcast while they are happening because I missed the beginning and in that case you really don't notice anything, although you still might pick up when the stream is supposed to end and thus be spoiled by that.

If there are ever replay casts, I really hope ESOC won't try to make cocasts happen. At some point it's just better to have one person solocast it, because all the syncing problems and stuff are just terrible for the experience.

[Hazza54321]

You also miss the ingame excuses and complaining

[knusch]

i think the lag issue should be rly considered here.

all nerfs/buffs and number tweaking and effort into better balance goes straight out the window if u cant even move your units properly...

[deleted_user0]

In my opinion in tournaments, donators should be respected. And that is same as showing the games live. If someone lags so much that game is unplayable then kick player/the caster out.
Anybody is free to play 1v1s outside of tournaments with no lag at all.

[momuuu]

Exactly. It's also a bit ludicrous to approach all these games as ultra competitive. The prize pool is pocket money, the devotion of the players seems worse than that of an average sunday league football team when it comes to truly practising hard and aoe3 in general is a very weird and buggy game to be taken extremely seriously. Of course ideally there would be no lag, but the way I see it is that these tournaments are just events for the community to enjoy. It will still be pretty enjoyable if it's a bit laggy. Of course you should kick the players/casters that are too laggy, but there shouldn't be too many of those.

[pecelot]

you're as naive as if you just joined ESOC about players being serious

[n0el]

The recorded game speed is such an issue, it is nearly impossible to do this with a good quality.

[[Armag] diarouga]

True.

[Garja]

In my opinion in tournaments, donators should be respected. And that is same as showing the games live. If someone lags so much that game is unplayable then kick player/the caster out.
Anybody is free to play 1v1s outside of tournaments with no lag at all.

Honestly I would prefer playing tourneys without any money but without lag than a lag fest with giant prize pool.

[Amsel_]

As a viewer, the cons outweigh the pros. But if Diarouga is right then perhaps it makes more sense to do recorded games. Although, it might be feasible to just do both. I remember that one tournament where Kaiser withdrew because of bad lag. In situations like that, it makes a lot of sense to do replays. But I think this is more about Satunterday Smackdown than tournaments. Since smackdown is more of a pure entertainment thing, I would support doing it live. Those cons seem way too steep. Tournaments are more about competition, and it would be unfortunate to see skill at the game be replaced with skill at coping with lag. Plus, if the smackdown prize holds up, you'll get players no matter what. A 50/50 shot at earning some money is probably worth playing with a bit of lag.

[n0el]

If the wonderful @Development Team could figure out how to fix the replay play speed in the UHC project it would be awesome

[[Armag] diarouga]

@edeholland Pro: If interjection forgets his UI, you don't have to restart the game at 3min!

[pecelot]

wow, a rational man, major generalisation

trample mode is meant to kill 1-HP Minutemen and nothing else!!!!

[[Armag] diarouga]

Can't get irony

Anyway, it's actually an issue. I think I had to restart casted games at least 5 times because the casters forgot their UIs, and it's very frustrating, especially when you get a good start.

[Mitoe]

Since when does Dodgerouga actually play casted games? I seem to remember you accepted the last matchup of the month, and the first smackdown, and then turned down both at the last moment.

[GiBthedurrty]

lol

[[Armag] diarouga]

Since when does Dodgerouga actually play casted games? I seem to remember you accepted the last matchup of the month, and the first smackdown, and then turned down both at the last moment.

It was because I had no time, not because I dodged.

[musketeer925]

Fixing rec playback is not going to happen I'd say

[Mitoe]

Well, at any rate, for me personally I’d say lag has rarely impacted the outcome of a series or even a game for me when casters are involved. The majority of the time it is totally playable.

Also, I already watch few enough games live, but I’m definitely not going to watch them if they’re casted off of recs. There’s no excitement, and recs are honestly terrible anyway. The players are going to forget to record games, and the recs aren’t going to play at full speed either, leaving you with a crappy 0.8 or 0.9 speed rec that has to be solo casted or something. Doesn’t sound like a great experience to me.

Plus players will just start complaining about the map more often when they lose, or maybe someone during a semi-final match or something similar will “forget” to record a game and use cheats or something. The casters help ensure fair play as much as the lag sometimes inhibits it. In extreme cases I think casters should cast from recs, but ideally they will cast live.