About restarts in tourney game

[Garja]

China would be arguably more balanced if one of their permanent wood crates was turned into food and then added the random crate just like any other civ.

[[Armag] diarouga]

China would be arguably more balanced if one of their permanent wood crates was turned into food and then added the random crate just like any other civ.

Well, that would be a buff.

[HUMMAN]

Fix creates according to map, still diverse and balanced.

[Garja]

China would be arguably more balanced if one of their permanent wood crates was turned into food and then added the random crate just like any other civ.

Well, that would be a buff.

A little buff in the end, probably.
But at least they would start from the same ground as other civs, getting better crate when others do as well and viceversa.

[[Armag] diarouga]

China would be arguably more balanced if one of their permanent wood crates was turned into food and then added the random crate just like any other civ.

Well, that would be a buff.

A little buff in the end, probably.
But at least they would start from the same ground as other civs, getting better crate when others do as well and viceversa.

True. It sounds fair tbh tbh.

[momuuu]

I dont get it tbh, the difference between starts can be huge for some civs. Just think of some extreme scenarios, like dutch vs india. If it's a coin start, india literally can't use the 100c. If it's a wood start, Dutch can't really use the 100w and india just straight up ages 20 seconds faster or something and gets the benefits from that. I think an age 1 TP nets you an extra shipment after about 12ish minutes. If you're playing China vs Germany and it's a 100f start the first time and a 100f+100w start the second time, the german player is basically going to get a TP for free, which is worth like 2-3 villagers. How is that acceptable?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I dont get it tbh, the difference between starts can be huge for some civs. Just think of some extreme scenarios, like dutch vs india. If it's a coin start, india literally can't use the 100c. If it's a wood start, Dutch can't really use the 100w and india just straight up ages 20 seconds faster or something and gets the benefits from that. I think an age 1 TP nets you an extra shipment after about 12ish minutes. If you're playing China vs Germany and it's a 100f start the first time and a 100f+100w start the second time, the german player is basically going to get a TP for free, which is worth like 2-3 villagers. How is that acceptable?

It's not acceptable, but apparently it adds diversity lol.

[momuuu]

I honestly don't get why some players are jizzing all over the idea of doing one of two/three variations of the opening that don't change anything except that you're in a better position with some variations than with others. I've also never seen anyone complain about civs like India, Dutch, China, Sioux and Russia who don't change anything based on the crates. It's not like those civs are boring. I don't think I've ever adapted to the crate start, other than that I've felt happy or sad about it because it was favoring me or not.

[gomakchios]

Yeah there is that, but you are not supposed to have a specific crate start when you click in a MU, it is completely random just like getting 140f treasure on GP, or losing it to your opponent..
Is that unfair? No simply because your opponent couldn't have estimated that.. Since fixed crates are out of the question, attention should be given on fixing map symmetry and balance.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I honestly don't get why some players are jizzing all over the idea of doing one of two/three variations of the opening that don't change anything except that you're in a better position with some variations than with others. I've also never seen anyone complain about civs like India, Dutch, China, Sioux and Russia who don't change anything based on the crates. It's not like those civs are boring. I don't think I've ever adapted to the crate start, other than that I've felt happy or sad about it because it was favoring me or not.

Yea.
Anyway, I gave up about the fixed crate change because, as some people said, it goes too far from RE patch, but it pisses me off to see that people don't want my changes because it goes too far from the RE, and now they change the unit costs and nerf the exiled prince lol.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah there is that, but you are not supposed to have a specific crate start when you click in a MU, it is completely random just like getting 140f treasure on GP, or losing it to your opponent..
Is that unfair? No simply because your opponent couldn't have estimated that.. Since fixed crates are out of the question, attention should be given on fixing map symmetry and balance.

The difference is that treasures don't give you an advantage right when the game starts, while against China sometimes you just start with -100w, which is unfair.

Anyway, I'm arguing against fixed crate here, but that wasn't the point of my post. I just wanted to say that it's unfair to have to rehost after you get an advantage (ie a good crate start). Idk, maybe we should do like in pkclan tournaments and give 2 restarts to each player and don't allow casters to rehost. It would suck tho, because in India vs Dutch for example, you would ask for a restart if you have a coin start as India.

[Garja]

Btw restart for resource imbalance is still up to the player. Caster can notify the imbalance but it's the player who decides to restart or play on.

[momuuu]

Tbh, if its a tournament game and you're playing something like China vs Germany, you should just pull the plug when you see Germany getting an age 1 TP because the admins/player will probably give you a restart.

[EAGLEMUT]

OOS confirmed to be a legit counterplay mechanic? @Googol @thebritish

[n0el]

Tbh, if its a tournament game and you're playing something like China vs Germany, you should just pull the plug when you see Germany getting an age 1 TP because the admins/player will probably give you a restart.

Shocked we don't see this. Probably do and no one has noticed it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Tbh, if its a tournament game and you're playing something like China vs Germany, you should just pull the plug when you see Germany getting an age 1 TP because the admins/player will probably give you a restart.

Shocked we don't see this. Probably do and no one has noticed it.

Goona do that in my serie against kaiser if he gets wood start more than one time.

[Kaiserklein]

If you beat erik so that I can play against aztecs instead of brits, sure, I don't mind the crates start

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you beat erik

:(

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah gl with azzy vs brit

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah gl with azzy vs brit

But you know what, Osmane is goona win!

[Rikikipu]

@Mitoe while I like the idea of overhauling the random crate mechanic in some way, I don't think any of the options you suggested are implementable.
To my understanding of the code, the restrictions/functionality of the random starting units are such that:
- there can be any number of random variations, but you can never have one player spawn with a different variation than other players (based on civ or anything)
- a civ can be defined to have the random starting units game mechanic disabled (current China)
- the randomized units can most likely include any unit in the game
A potential overhaul could of course also adjust the permanent starting units.

I don't know whether if this idea is going to be implemented someday, but still we can transfer the logic of crates spawns directly into the maps so we got full control of what crates should spawn for each civ.

[bwinner]

One Idea coulb bé to change the bonus crates according to the civ like that :
rank them :
Russia : 1f/2w/3g
Fr : 1w/2g/3f
Dutch : 1g/2f/3w
Etc

And then instead of giving extra 100w to everyone you give extra 100 of their #1 crate and so on

[[Armag] diarouga]

One Idea coulb bé to change the bonus crates according to the civ like that :
rank them :
Russia : 1f/2w/3g
Fr : 1w/2g/3f
Dutch : 1g/2f/3w
Etc

And then instead of giving extra 100w to everyone you give extra 100 of their #1 crate and so on

No, it's irrelevant as it wouldn't solve this issue and wood start is probably the best for every civ.

[momuuu]

A nice start would be to remove the +100f possibility of wood/coin starts. That will make early TP stuff harder at least.

[[Armag] diarouga]

A nice start would be to remove the +100f possibility of wood/coin starts. That will make early TP stuff harder at least.

Would it? It would also be an indirect buff to China.