What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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Italy Garja
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by Garja »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:You know, IQ translates into better dexterity and thus better mechanics.

What? High IQ doesn't mean you're a superior human being bro.

what does that even mean? Are you serious or is it some attempt of troll post?
Generally IQ refers mostly to logical-mathematical and spacial intelligence or at least that's what IQ tests usually measure. Sometimes they also measure linguistic capabilities.
Playing games definetely correlates with spacial intelligence (the one tested with patterns of figures, etc). If you are intelligent in that field you usually end up being proficient in sports and games.
Logic and math correlate to strategy more than mechanics I guess but I dont think it is so black and white anyway.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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Watch pro cs players play pugs and youll see real small brain plays, although its just pugs so they often go for cool plays rather than smart plays, that being said any of them could be the best aoe3 player in probably 4 months, probably way less.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by momuuu »

High IQ people are superior in literally everything. It's official. Garja would probably be a better football player than Messi if he just tried.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by bwinner »

cs has nothing to deal with aoe3, tell me a sc2 pro player could be good at aoe3, maybe, but cs there is no reason.
Btw even Tatooh, the spanish aoe2 pro player didn't manage to get good at aoe3 in 4 months despite aoe2 being very close from aoe3. You could arg cs player are more professionnal than this guy, but it definitly doesn't make it for the difference there is.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by momuuu »

If you have reasonable mechanics and a functioning brain and you make aoe3 your job for 4 months, you'll make it to 'pro' level. I'm sure of that.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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What do you mean it has nothing to do with aoe3? Just cause its not the same genre is irrelevant considering that being pro at cs means you're top .01 percentile in a game which had 20 million players last month, meaning they're naturally good at video games, while literally no one who plays aoe is naturally good at video games.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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In law school right now. Can confirm that my aoe3 skills have not improved.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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gibson wrote:Watch pro cs players play pugs and youll see real small brain plays, although its just pugs so they often go for cool plays rather than smart plays, that being said any of them could be the best aoe3 player in probably 4 months, probably way less.

probably no :chinese:

momuuu wrote:High IQ people are superior in literally everything. It's official. Garja would probably be a better football player than Messi if he just tried.

No but I played football for about 10 years and I was good at it. How good? Probably enough to make a living out of it, considering that some of my teams mates that were not as good as me continued and now they do it.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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that's because law school doesn't make you smarter...
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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If anything, IQ is more a requirement for some faculties (not law school) than the other way around. I mean, unless you're in math-physics stuff, hardly your faculty improves your IQ. Surely it improves your knowledge and your intelligence but not necessarily your IQ score.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by gibson »

any pro player in a major esport game could be the top aoe3 player in a matter of months, thats just a fact.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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gibson wrote:What do you mean it has nothing to do with aoe3? Just cause its not the same genre is irrelevant considering that being pro at cs means you're top .01 percentile in a game which had 20 million players last month, meaning they're naturally good at video games, while literally no one who plays aoe is naturally good at video games.

This is a rather bold statement with no evidence to back it up. Have you even played other games with @WickedCossack before?
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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gibson wrote:any pro player in a major esport game could be the top aoe3 player in a matter of months, thats just a fact.

I have no doubt that a good gamer can probably end up being proficient in another game. Gaming skills are often trasversal and transfer from game to game. This is just an example of what I was trying to say. Saying that you can be top player in a matter of months is bs tho. You simply need time to learn the game and appreciate some things. This is at least if you're self taught. Of course if someone teaches you the entire AOE3 theory that significantly reduces the time it takes.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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Its not a bold statement. I consider someone to be good at video games when they are able to support themselves by playing, or if they can play competitively with people who can support themselves by playing. No one who plays aoe3 can do that( to my knowledge at least) so I dont consider anyone to be good. It is rather subjective though. Many peoples definition of good is probably lower than mine.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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Garja wrote:
gibson wrote:any pro player in a major esport game could be the top aoe3 player in a matter of months, thats just a fact.

I have no doubt that a good gamer can probably end up being proficient in another game. Gaming skills are often trasversal and transfer from game to game. This is just an example of what I was trying to say. Saying that you can be top player in a matter of months is bs tho. You simply need time to learn the game and appreciate some things. This is at least if you're self taught. Of course if someone teaches you the entire AOE3 theory that significantly reduces the time it takes.
It depends on the game. In games that have a high skill level its going to take even the best natural gamer years to be great. I remember hearing a dota 2 pro say that someone would have to play dota2 for like a year just to understand the basics. A game like aoe3 however has a relatively low skill level, making it easier to get good. With all the information of builds that top players do and recorded games of top players it would be relatively easy for someone who is naturally good at video games to be able to execute basic but strong builds better than current top players. Now there are certain subtitles to the game that take a bit longer to pick up on, but someone who is naturally talented, driven to win, and willing to put time in could easily be pr35 or higher in a few months, maybe even less.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by Mitoe »

gibson wrote:Its not a bold statement. I consider someone to be good at video games when they are able to support themselves by playing, or if they can play competitively with people who can support themselves by playing. No one who plays aoe3 can do that( to my knowledge at least) so I dont consider anyone to be good. It is rather subjective though. Many peoples definition of good is probably lower than mine.

That's a very weird definition; can't say I understand or agree.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by momuuu »

Tbh it seems a bit ridiculous to define 'good players' like that. After all, if you're good and known in aoe3 you probably haven't had the time to be good in other games...

Though I must say I don't think aoe3's player level is really high, I don't think many of these players are untalented. If sc2, a larger more competitive playerbase, is any indication aoe3 players are generally pretty high up there even.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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I dont think its odd. How can you say that person A is good at a game when persons B C D and E can beat person A at said game while drunk, playing with one hand, and still manage to win so convincingly that the entire match was non competitive? If someone is able to embarrass you at a game 100 percent of the time either you aren't good or that person is an outlier. And when there are thousands of people who are that good I dont think you can consider them to be outliers anymore, rather you just arent good.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by momuuu »

You probably should try to find a different way to make your point, because this is just weird.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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That kinda seems unrelated to your initial definition.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by Mitoe »

gibson wrote:It depends on the game. In games that have a high skill level its going to take even the best natural gamer years to be great. I remember hearing a dota 2 pro say that someone would have to play dota2 for like a year just to understand the basics. A game like aoe3 however has a relatively low skill level, making it easier to get good. With all the information of builds that top players do and recorded games of top players it would be relatively easy for someone who is naturally good at video games to be able to execute basic but strong builds better than current top players. Now there are certain subtitles to the game that take a bit longer to pick up on, but someone who is naturally talented, driven to win, and willing to put time in could easily be pr35 or higher in a few months, maybe even less.

Also, I think MOBAs are a notoriously bad example here. Mechanics are unimportant in MOBAs compared to other games, because you can't even make use of your mechanics if you don't understand the capabilities of your opponents' (and allies') characters. And since games like Dota and League of Legends have over 100+ characters, it does take a very very long time to learn all of their abilities and stuff, especially as patches make big changes every 2 - 6 weeks, sometimes even introducing new characters or completely revamping existing characters.

FPS games for example have skills that are much more transferable between games than other genres--if you can aim you will probably do fine even if you don't fully grasp the game's mechanics or meta yet. RTS is somewhere in the middle. You need a good balance of mechanics and game knowledge to be successful in a new RTS.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

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@Googol seems talented at everything
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by gibson »

momuuu wrote:You probably should try to find a different way to make your point, because this is just weird.
Well its pretty simple, if someone is able to consistently dominate you at a game, you probably aren't good at the game.

Mitoe wrote:That kinda seems unrelated to your initial definition.
Not directly related no, but someone playing at the professional level is almost certainly fitting into my previous definition of "good". Professional is just much easier to quantify.
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by momuuu »

It's unfair to judge aoe3 players by those standards though. None of these players is actually a dedicated diehard. The few cases I know where good aoe3 players did try, they actually became semi pro (ryan for sc2 and samwise for LoL).
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Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Post by Garja »

Professionalism comes after money. And self-substainability does it too. The only reason aoe3 aoe3 players arent at that level is because of the lack of money.
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