Pr25 and under tournament?

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United States of America Squamiger
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Pr25 and under tournament?

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Post by Squamiger »

Have there been any organized tournaments for noobs like me? I see the lower bracket of the New Years classic had some low PR players but it’s mostly dominated by people pr 28-29.

I don’t expect anyone to want to watch a noob tournament (or maybe you would?) but I’d like to play in one.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by gomakchios »

Second chance tournament used to have an upper pr limit iirc.
Also @site's invitational tourney was for people under pr35 I think.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by BrookG »

In the main tournament all players from PR15 and above are accepted. Clearly a big part of those lower PR won't reach the late rounds, therefore there is a Second Chance tournament. Those that lost in the early stages have the opportunity to play there. It is the 2nd time, such a tourney is hosted, so we are open to hear opinions. If you ask me personally, watching such a tournament isn't very entertaining, but participating for sure is.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Jerimuno »

BrookG wrote:..., therefore there is a Second Chance tournament. Those that lost in the early stages have the opportunity to play there. It is the 2nd time, such a tourney is hosted, so we are open to hear opinions.


Second chance tourneys have been arojnd since autumn 2016, there have been four since, and in my opinion they were all nice to watch, since these tourneys also include steong players like iamturk, optimus prime, butifle, mongobillione etc. who are definitely fun to watch for 99% of aoe players.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Snuden »

Yea, just sign up the the tourneys, that will at least give you 2-3 games, and then the 2nd chance tourney for another 2-3 games.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Squamiger »

Oh cool, I didn’t know about the second chance option and I’m new to how tournaments work. But I guess this is still different from a tournament exclusively for people pr25 or below, where someone at that rank could win the finals and be crowned king of the losers.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Tim010 »

I would defenitly sign up for something like that, even though i'm afraid this is to hard to accomplish. There will probablybe people from higher PR's who come trolling to win.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

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Post by aligator92 »

the big problem with this idea is that captains can just decay their rank to 25 to participate and a bunch of people will just join it with their smurf accounts to troll lieutenants. So unless you put in a harsh punishment for smurfing (e.g. being banned from all tournies for one year) and also consider max PR instead of current, I don't see that happening.
And even with these two rules in place there may be smurfs and the entertainment value might be very small in terms of streams.
But I also wouldnt expect ESOC staff to stop people from organizing their own little tourny on the forum, so if you are willing to organize, go ahead ;) .
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by GiBthedurrty »

Jerimuno wrote:
BrookG wrote:..., therefore there is a Second Chance tournament. Those that lost in the early stages have the opportunity to play there. It is the 2nd time, such a tourney is hosted, so we are open to hear opinions.


Second chance tourneys have been arojnd since autumn 2016, there have been four since, and in my opinion they were all nice to watch, since these tourneys also include steong players like iamturk, optimus prime, butifle, mongobillione etc. who are definitely fun to watch for 99% of aoe players.

lol
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by momuuu »

Why dont you gather a few friends and just create your own invitational/clan tournament? Theres nothing stopping you.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

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Post by musketeer925 »

I would say rather than a hard PR cap (since it's easy to manipulate your PR), the best way to run a "low-level" tournament would be have a system where players "apply" to join, and then a panel of mid-level players who know the community well could vet applicants, either based on knowing their play-style or watching some recs of their play. More than likely, a player who isn't already well-known to the community is probably low enough to join.

Alternatively, you could always have an "invitational", but I think that defeats the point of a low-level tournament: capturing interest of a lot of lower levels who aren't currently too involved.

Ultimately, though, tournaments are kind of antithetical to low level players. An event structured to answer the question, "who is the best player?" doesn't make since if you're excluding good players -- obviously the best player you allow to play is the best player. A league format would be a much better approach for low-level players, but no one has ever ran a successful league event. A league where you have recurring scheduled games would actually be very nice for the community, though. It would encourage frequent games and give ESOC good things to show on scheduled weekly streams. I think the key to implementing such a thing would be to allow players to input their availability for the week, and then match with other players with overlapping availability -- unlike tournaments, which are in the opposite order. A system where you can say "I want to play twice a week for the next month", and give it you availability, and be able to sit down and play versus a similarly ranked opponent, without having to wait around to find a game, would be super nice.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by deleted_user0 »

The problem is and always will be smurfs. Even in real sports, they don't really have an answer to this. We had smurfs in our football team all the time, guys from the 1st squad who played a couple of leagues higher than us and liked to troll lower ranked teams a little on their free sunday morning. And here you actually have to id all the players but somehow we always found a way around, and refs usually didn't care enough anyway.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by musketeer925 »

Yeah, agree that smurfs are a problem, but I think less so in a league where it's a little more casual.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

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Post by Tim010 »

musketeer925 wrote:
Ultimately, though, tournaments are kind of antithetical to low level players. An event structured to answer the question, "who is the best player?" doesn't make since if you're excluding good players -- obviously the best player you allow to play is the best player. A league format would be a much better approach for low-level players, but no one has ever ran a successful league event. A league where you have recurring scheduled games would actually be very nice for the community, though. It would encourage frequent games and give ESOC good things to show on scheduled weekly streams. I think the key to implementing such a thing would be to allow players to input their availability for the week, and then match with other players with overlapping availability -- unlike tournaments, which are in the opposite order. A system where you can say "I want to play twice a week for the next month", and give it you availability, and be able to sit down and play versus a similarly ranked opponent, without having to wait around to find a game, would be super nice.


Love this idea!

I am following the forums and streams on a daily basis for the last two months and it really seems like even though this community is very kind and welcomming to new players, it still revolves around the same 25 people . Like tournaments, steams, smackdown, obvious it needs to be quality content and people including me love te see this. So the aspect of content to watch, hints and strategies offered on the forum is eally briljant and will help me a lot to improve.

The problem i have is i don't find the right opponents to try these new things out against. Just looking for or hosting games gives you long waiting times or unbalanced matches and it's just not working for me. So a tournament or a league (wich seems indeed the better option) where there is some kind of organised matchup system for low/same level players is something i would immediatly sign up for .
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viBwHgLHlsE

Just found this. Looks like there's literally a PR25- tournament in signup phase right now :hmm:
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Squamiger »

oh tite, is anyone else signing up? is this not affiliated with esoc though?
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Squamiger wrote:oh tite, is anyone else signing up? is this not affiliated with esoc though?

Not affiliated, it's by the Youtuber SamuraiRevolution.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Tim010 »

I am considering signing up for the tourney experience. I just need to find some more information about data so i can make sure i'm able to play.

Ps: I don't want to be an ungreatfull picky guy but FFA is like treaty with a russian roulette about who gets attacked, i feel like a "luck/random"-factor will dominate the outcome and not the capability of the players. I was actually hoping to find something in 1v1 format.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by dansil92 »

Squamiger wrote:oh tite, is anyone else signing up? is this not affiliated with esoc though?


Im signed up for this, just know there is an entry fee and ffa is always a gongshow lol
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by rushinglegend »

How about a 2v2 tourney, with teams being formed by at least 1 lower level player (MaxPR of this player is up for debate)?
It could bring the community closer together as lower level players can play together with and against the best players. Most certainly it would be good experience to learn as well.

To prevent smurfing you can use MaxPR, remove prize money of have some sort of validation necesarry to receive prize money.
I'm not fond my next idea, but maybe the lower level player can 'buy' a higher level player in his team to form the teams before the tourney according to his PRlevel (or you can let players bid for a certain amount of time. The randomness may also reduce possible smurfs (You could just randomize the teams alternitavely). This money could be used to add prize money, aid ESOC or give to charity.

I'm not handing a certain format, just ideas. :)


PS: did we ever have a 3v3 tourney? You could have squads of 5 join the tourney out of which any combination of 3 players can form a team to start a match, maybe even change each game. This makes it easier to get 6 players to come together at the same time to play a 3v3 tourney game.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

rushinglegend wrote:How about a 2v2 tourney, with teams being formed by at least 1 lower level player (MaxPR of this player is up for debate)?
It could bring the community closer together as lower level players can play together with and against the best players. Most certainly it would be good experience to learn as well.

To prevent smurfing you can use MaxPR, remove prize money of have some sort of validation necesarry to receive prize money.
I'm not fond my next idea, but maybe the lower level player can 'buy' a higher level player in his team to form the teams before the tourney according to his PRlevel (or you can let players bid for a certain amount of time. The randomness may also reduce possible smurfs (You could just randomize the teams alternitavely). This money could be used to add prize money, aid ESOC or give to charity.

I'm not handing a certain format, just ideas. :)


PS: did we ever have a 3v3 tourney? You could have squads of 5 join the tourney out of which any combination of 3 players can form a team to start a match, maybe even change each game. This makes it easier to get 6 players to come together at the same time to play a 3v3 tourney game.

It's not really fun to play with worse players than you, because you know that if you lose, it's because your mate didn't play well, and that's really frustrating, especially in a tournament.
3v3 tourneys can be fun and were considered, but the conclusion is that there would be too much lag.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by rushinglegend »

[Armag] diarouga wrote: It's not really fun to play with worse players than you, because you know that if you lose, it's because your mate didn't play well, and that's really frustrating, especially in a tournament.
3v3 tourneys can be fun and were considered, but the conclusion is that there would be too much lag.


I understand it. It's a shame people blame teammates so easily, instead of reflecting on theirselves and/or giving proper advice.

The tourney format could be a way to set an example, but that may be too naive. Anyway, I suggested this idea from a mindset of it being a tourney focused on bringing the community together, a.k.a. a community celebration. :D
Anyway, still proud of the idea and maybe one day it'll be implemented still. :)
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

rushinglegend wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote: It's not really fun to play with worse players than you, because you know that if you lose, it's because your mate didn't play well, and that's really frustrating, especially in a tournament.
3v3 tourneys can be fun and were considered, but the conclusion is that there would be too much lag.


I understand it. It's a shame people blame teammates so easily, instead of reflecting on theirselves and/or giving proper advice.

The tourney format could be a way to set an example, but that may be too naive. Anyway, I suggested this idea from a mindset of it being a tourney focused on bringing the community together, a.k.a. a community celebration. :D
Anyway, still proud of the idea and maybe one day it'll be implemented still. :)

Well, they don't blame the team mates easily, it's deserved. It's very frustrating to lose a game because your team mate plays bad, and even worse when he doesn't listen to your "orders".
This also happens at high level, some guys listen to you, and some don't, and of course a team with one leader who knows a lot about the game and a mate who follows his advice is much better than a team where both players play 1v2.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by BrookG »

It's not only about following the orders. It's also about choices of the least good teammate you can't manage
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
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Re: Pr25 and under tournament?

Post by Papist »

If you want to organize a tournament like this, ESOC will almost certainly give you the platform to do so. People have run a few private tournaments from this forum, most recently Moltke's Summer 2018 Risk tourney.
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