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*YOU WON'T BELIEVE HOW THIS SALTY AMERICAN WATER BOI WON $10,000 PLAYING AGE OF EMPIRES!*
*CLICK BELOW FOR HIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK*

[spoiler=spoiler]He played Japan[/spoiler]

Jokes aside, I don't know if anyone has posted these before but here are (I think) all of the recs from WCG 2007/08 including the qualifying stages, group stages and finals - all contained in some convenient user friendly ZIP files.

If you get too nostalgic dm me and we can play Japan mirror on RE patch 1.00

Thx xoxo

[spoiler=spoiler]Disclaimer: won't work with observer ui cause Aiz was only baby elifent back then[/spoiler]

nice

holy shit, the gold mine disparity on the last game of the 08 final was insanely unbalanced against h20. Like 7 mines on grunts side, 3 on h2os. I wonder if that ultimately tipped it in h2o's favor because he transitioned faster to paddies and was more set up for the long game.

my question to everyone is, would the current meta easily defeat the strats played in these 10-11 year old games? Or would that meta still be the top meta if we were playing on that patch? i.e., do we know more about the game now than we did then, all things being equal?

and then I was just wondering if @_H2O feels like this was when he was at the all-time top of his game, or if he thinks he's improved since then. Could 2019 _H2O beat 2008 _H2O? Mad respect btw.

Squamiger wrote:holy shit, the gold mine disparity on the last game of the 08 final was insanely unbalanced against h20. Like 7 mines on grunts side, 3 on h2os. I wonder if that ultimately tipped it in h2o's favor because he transitioned faster to paddies and was more set up for the long game.

my question to everyone is, would the current meta easily defeat the strats played in these 10-11 year old games? Or would that meta still be the top meta if we were playing on that patch? i.e., do we know more about the game now than we did then, all things being equal?

and then I was just wondering if @_H2O feels like this was when he was at the all-time top of his game, or if he thinks he's improved since then. Could 2019 _H2O beat 2008 _H2O? Mad respect btw.

Having less mines definitely sucks. In jap mirror it's probably not that much of an issue because you can put your shrines on gold, which is enough for the ashi production (H2O prefered to put them on food though because you can delay the 2 orchards which makes sense).

The patch was different back then, shrines were better, and ashi stronger so the mankle build was probably the best build back then, but on the current patch it can lose to semi FI builds, especially on Siberia. Blackstar and nagayumi showed that semi FI is better than the bank build on the current RE.

_H2O said multiple times that he was better mechanically back then, but had less knowledge about the game of course, so 2008 _H2O would lose to 2019 _H2O if they were to play a serie without preparation. Given some time, 2008 _H2O would probably copy the meta builds and win though.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Squamiger wrote:holy shit, the gold mine disparity on the last game of the 08 final was insanely unbalanced against h20. Like 7 mines on grunts side, 3 on h2os. I wonder if that ultimately tipped it in h2o's favor because he transitioned faster to paddies and was more set up for the long game.

my question to everyone is, would the current meta easily defeat the strats played in these 10-11 year old games? Or would that meta still be the top meta if we were playing on that patch? i.e., do we know more about the game now than we did then, all things being equal?

and then I was just wondering if @_H2O feels like this was when he was at the all-time top of his game, or if he thinks he's improved since then. Could 2019 _H2O beat 2008 _H2O? Mad respect btw.

Having less mines definitely sucks. In jap mirror it's probably not that much of an issue because you can put your shrines on gold, which is enough for the ashi production (H2O prefered to put them on food though because you can delay the 2 orchards which makes sense).

The patch was different back then, shrines were better, and ashi stronger so the mankle build was probably the best build back then, but on the current patch it can lose to semi FI builds, especially on Siberia. Blackstar and nagayumi showed that semi FI is better than the bank build on the current RE.

_H2O said multiple times that he was better mechanically back then, but had less knowledge about the game of course, so 2008 _H2O would lose to 2019 _H2O if they were to play a serie without preparation. Given some time, 2008 _H2O would probably copy the meta builds and win though.

This depends because mechanics are significantly more important in 0 ping LAN games than in 100-200+ ping online games.

Probably.

I remember asian qualifier recs going oos with both basic and most up to date TWC patches. Probably it was an in between patch where they nerfed Iro.

I wonder if they even realized that industrial shogunate was so that broken.

Garja wrote:I wonder if they even realized that industrial shogunate was so that broken.

They did but because of how strong the ashis were it didn't really matter because ashis would counter arrows.

Garja wrote:I remember asian qualifier recs going oos with both basic and most up to date TWC patches. Probably it was an in between patch where they nerfed Iro.

Yes, we have to install the patch 1.04 for TWC in order to watch the recs of WCG 2007 without oos.

Why exactly was Japan that op back then that basically everyone in those recs is playing Jap? I was around back then but unfortunately too young to understand much about balance , and can't really find good patchnotes. What i already found out is that Ashigaru had 2 more attack and Close Combat and Ashigaru Attack both gave 5% to HP / Attack more than they do now? Also why is it that other than Japan people played germany?

scarm wrote:Why exactly was Japan that op back then that basically everyone in those recs is playing Jap? I was around back then but unfortunately too young to understand much about balance , and can't really find good patchnotes. What i already found out is that Ashigaru had 2 more attack and Close Combat and Ashigaru Attack both gave 5% to HP / Attack more than they do now? Also why is it that other than Japan people played germany?

Also shrines gathered faster so you'd get your first ashi batch 30-40 sec earlier.

What about this player called the demon in 3th place?

scarm wrote:Why exactly was Japan that op back then that basically everyone in those recs is playing Jap? I was around back then but unfortunately too young to understand much about balance , and can't really find good patchnotes. What i already found out is that Ashigaru had 2 more attack and Close Combat and Ashigaru Attack both gave 5% to HP / Attack more than they do now? Also why is it that other than Japan people played germany?

Ashi attack way higher (base was something stupid like 28 or so)
Shrines about double the res of today.
TPS more expensive, less counter play
Maps weren’t balanced and shrine plus cherry eco was so dependable

Japan
o Toshogu Shrine
Bonus to shrines reduced to x1.5 down from x2.33
o Consulate Japanese Isolation choice
Reduced bonus damage to 5% down from 10%
o Ashigaru Musketeer
Ranged attacks reduced to 24 down from 26

These are the RE patch changes for the Japanese civ from 1.02 which came out in June 2009. After that the only TAD patch was the 1.03 one in 2010, having no gameplay changes at all and just allowing us to play without a CD.

The trading post changes are as follows:
Trading Posts
o Cost lowered to 200 wood from 250 wood.
o Hit points lowered to 2500 from 3000
o Build points lowered to 72 from 90
o Bounty reduced to 80 from 100
o Build bounty reduced to 40 from 50

These changes make a bigger difference than you might think.

From my experience, Japan struggles most vs strong rushes and early semi FF timings. Aside from that, Japan is still fairly strong on RE atm.

Bwfore the change, Japan had a stronger eco in age2 and considerably stronger Ashis. That meant you could easily hold all HI or xbow rushes with just mass ashi, which, due to their speed, even did okay vs low numbers of ghurkas etc. Once the upgrades on base stats came in, you could make almost only Ashis.

Semi FF civs could hardly compete, especially due to no early TP.

Add to that the even more annoying ashi raids on RE maps.

Imagine playing as France vs Japan on no TP RE, Japan having an extra vill upon reaching age2 and getting the age2 ashi upgrade for free without sending a card.

can esoc cast these games in a special wcg smackdown nostalgia stream?

sebnan12 wrote:can esoc cast these games in a special wcg smackdown nostalgia stream?

Somebody already did this a long time ago. I think there's an esoc thread buried somewhere.