User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Gendarme
Posts: 8904
Location: USA

11 Feb 2019, 17:31

momuuu wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly not worth wasting time answering jerom and papist, they just lack the common sense required to make a difference between obvious glitches and abusing well defined mechanics. I'm being rude but it's just the truth

I'd say you can't defend the views that you consider obvious, and thus you just resort to insulting people instead. If only you had the common sense and mental capacity to defend your views.

In this thread there are zero solid arguments to prove that alt-d is a cheat. There's not a single reason that shows why alt-d is somehow inherently unfair. People that back up and just claim "its obvious" are very sad people in my eyes. Don't you guys want a reason to believe something? Or is just following your very first instinct of what others have said for the rest of your life enough for you? I'm happy I'm not such a simple sheep.
Lol you're really trying to take the moral high ground? The very definition of the word fair is in accordance with the rules. Alt-d breaks the rules of the game, the only way you're supposed to be able to revive your explorer once down is 1) getting LOS of him when he has 25 percent health or 2)paying for him, so by definition it is unfair. And please don't respond to this, I really don't want to engage in conversation with you,as you're stupid and lack common sense, the only reason why I'm quoting you is to give some frame of reference for newer or lower level players who might be reading the idiotic jumble of words that you call a post and think its okay to alt-D.
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 5390
ESO: mr_bramboy
Location: Amsterdam

11 Feb 2019, 19:01

No one is trying to argue you here.
User avatar
Germany aligator92
Lancer
Posts: 792
ESO: aligator92

11 Feb 2019, 19:11

So I did not read the large majority of this thread but since this is still going on and apparantly noone has given Jerom a satisfying reason to disapprove of using Alt + D I wanna share my thoughts aswell:

Do I think it is on the same level as spawning units or OoSing? no
Do I think using it is acceptable? no
How do I react to people doing it? After the first time, I tell them that I don't accept it and after a second time I stop playing with these people.

'If it is cheating, why is it in the game?' Sadly I don't have an answer to this but I guess they implemented it to test something else and forgot to remove it.

Why do I consider its use to be unacceptable?
Well since there are two other ways to revive an explorer (letting it heal, then wake it up or pay resources (ransom,dance)) both of which demand an investment from your side. It makes no sense to be able to just revive it for free.
Also it gives you a huge advantage. Imagine being germany, as the civ relies heavily on a tp it is part of your strategy to not lose your exploerer before you made your TP. With Alt-D you can do whatever you want and still get it. Imagine any other civ, you lose your explorer in age 1 mid map, no way of getting him back easily. Just Alt-D walk back to base, heal up and have a couple hundreds of tank HP for the first musk fights. Imagine a treasure contention, you lose your explorer to either the treasure or your opponent, so after after he kills the guardians Alt-D and get a 50% chance at a treasure you had no right to get.

'It also has drawbacks. You might lose it again'
Yeah if you revive it right next to your opponent like an idiot. Again imagine being germany, your opponent took a lot of effort, sacrificing scouting time and treasures to hunt down your explorer and he finally killed it. But if Alt-D is ok, he now has to camp your dead explorer forever, sacrificing even more scouting and treasuring time. Same for japan and shrining monks. Using Alt-D is effectively killing an entire unit which has to camp you now. Same for his use as tank. What is the problem with less LOS if you will only use him to tank shots anyway? Or what would you rather do? Gift your opponent another 45XP and tank a falconet volley with your revived explorer or take that hit with your infantery and give your opponent 60XP?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9689
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

11 Feb 2019, 19:14

tedere12 wrote:
momuuu wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?
Netherlands loloekie10
Skirmisher
Posts: 149

11 Feb 2019, 19:18

I personally would be in favor of actually allowing alt+D in tournaments. Even though it is quite an ugly game mechanic (if you could call it that) like many have pointed out, I find it even uglier that you are not allowed to use something that is actually in the game in a competitive setting.

I'd say a good approach would be to allow everything that is in the game and available to you through the actual game menu (so no messing with game files outside the game), implying that if alt+D can not be removed from the game, we should accept that it exists and consider its possible balance impact in the patch changes.

That is just my opinion tho.
User avatar
Armenia Sargsyan
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2120
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger ID: 2106182

11 Feb 2019, 19:22

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
tedere12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

How is that fair that you cant snare with india. How is that fair that zambs have lower hp than goons.
Seriously this thread is complete bullshit with bullshit arguments, dont know how one can be bothered to even answer to these nonsense posts. Although i just did
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9689
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

11 Feb 2019, 19:40

Sargsyan wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

How is that fair that you cant snare with india. How is that fair that zambs have lower hp than goons.
Seriously this thread is complete bullshit with bullshit arguments, dont know how one can be bothered to even answer to these nonsense posts. Although i just did

Tedere claimed that alt-d was bad because it allowed to get away with mistakes, my point is that it's the same with pull trick.
User avatar
Sweden tabben
Dragoon
EWTNWC LAN Bronze
Posts: 469
ESO: tabben

11 Feb 2019, 19:44

esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads
Image

Image

*Jeri lames a forward agra vill with nootka*
ramex19 (veni): such nooby shit i will lame you with nats forever
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Gendarme
Posts: 8904
Location: USA

11 Feb 2019, 20:05

tabben wrote:esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads
@Papist
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 5390
ESO: mr_bramboy
Location: Amsterdam

11 Feb 2019, 21:50

Not surprised seeing this point of view from Jerom. He is a Socialist after all. Having a flawed viewpoint is in their blood. Let me just reiterate GEOTUS: America Will Never Be A Socialist Country!

User avatar
Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 8021
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

11 Feb 2019, 22:46

You know the concept of germane discussion is just that - conceptual, man.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
User avatar
United States of America Papist
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 2511
ESO: Papist

12 Feb 2019, 03:25

Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly not worth wasting time answering jerom and papist, they just lack the common sense required to make a difference between obvious glitches and abusing well defined mechanics. I'm being rude but it's just the truth


"Well defined mechanic" is a standard you made up just now. It's completely subjective and has no bearing on whether creeping and the pull trick are bugs or not. Does a bug magically stops being a bug if it's "well defined", i.e. people use it a lot and center their play around it?

Not even going to bother responding to the personal attacks. I'l just say that after arguing with you many times, I have come to expect nothing less :flowers:
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
Bolivia tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3306
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece

12 Feb 2019, 03:38

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
tedere12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

And you can also snare an enemy explorer back to free yourself from snare. It is an intented mechanic that requires (little) skill in contrast to using alt + D to revive your explorer after you have caused plenty of damage to your enemy's explorer by standing still and putting no effort in getting away.
Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9689
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

12 Feb 2019, 08:13

tedere12 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

And you can also snare an enemy explorer back to free yourself from snare. It is an intented mechanic that requires (little) skill in contrast to using alt + D to revive your explorer after you have caused plenty of damage to your enemy's explorer by standing still and putting no effort in getting away.

And you can micro to prevent your opponent from escaping that way.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4150
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

12 Feb 2019, 08:26

Personally I think it's a bug that the hunts run away from the unit that shot at them. It was clearly intended to be completely random. Intentionally "herding" hunts should be banned from tournaments and competitive play in general. This is, of course, an objectively indisputable fact.
User avatar
France kami_ryu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1984
ESO: kami_ryu & incognoto
Location: Denver, CO, USA, Earth, Milky Way, Virgo Supercluster

12 Feb 2019, 14:50

making units is an exploit
Hold me close when it's over
Life goes slow loving sober
User avatar
Greece BrookG
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1216
ESO: BrookG
Location: not Amsterdam

12 Feb 2019, 15:02

tabben wrote:esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads

it had, its name was hleung
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1082
ESO: Chumbo_Grosso_

18 Feb 2019, 13:56

momuuu wrote:
91 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

My question was rather about the fact that just because both can do it, is it not cheating?

It can still be cheating. I don't want to prove alt-d isn't cheating, because that is actually not possible. I want to show people that it isn't as obvious of a matter as they think. It's actually a pretty complicated question and the discussion should end up with the conclusion that alt-d is only cheating because people have decided it to be cheating.

So in that aspect, the only relevant thing about both being able to do it is that it invalidates arguments like those presented by macaco.

I'd argue that for something that is part of the game, that is not explicitly forbidden, that one should provide actual arguments as to why it is cheating. I don't actually think those arguments are there.

Lol you are just delusional hahahaha
Alt d a japs explorer and poof it away while it has just enough hp to survive 1-2 shots from the explorer guarding its body. What a fair game mechanic
Sry for reviving a dead topic but I have to make my point haha
Image
No hacks just (lack of) skillz

twitch.tv/chumbo_grosso_
User avatar
Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 8021
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

27 Feb 2019, 05:02

macacoalbino wrote:
momuuu wrote:
Show hidden quotes

It can still be cheating. I don't want to prove alt-d isn't cheating, because that is actually not possible. I want to show people that it isn't as obvious of a matter as they think. It's actually a pretty complicated question and the discussion should end up with the conclusion that alt-d is only cheating because people have decided it to be cheating.

So in that aspect, the only relevant thing about both being able to do it is that it invalidates arguments like those presented by macaco.

I'd argue that for something that is part of the game, that is not explicitly forbidden, that one should provide actual arguments as to why it is cheating. I don't actually think those arguments are there.

Lol you are just delusional hahahaha
Alt d a japs explorer and poof it away while it has just enough hp to survive 1-2 shots from the explorer guarding its body. What a fair game mechanic
Sry for reviving a dead topic but I have to make my point haha

Alt D has downsides. You even call it a mechanic yourself. It's silly to think that every mechanic should be perfectly fair, because then the game would be pong.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 7703

31 Mar 2019, 22:25

An announcement from Shoenice

There's sand in my teeth
United States of America charlemango
Musketeer
Posts: 75
ESO: 2ndLastKnight

31 Mar 2019, 22:51

How did you do this??????
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 7703

31 Mar 2019, 22:52

charlemango wrote:How did you do this??????


Shoenice feels strongly about this topic
There's sand in my teeth
User avatar
Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 8021
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

31 Mar 2019, 22:58

charlemango wrote:How did you do this??????

https://www.cameo.com/

Ear gave $5 to a mentally diseased individual who will do anything to hold onto his fragile tether to relevancy.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
User avatar
No Flag fightinfrenchman
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 7703

31 Mar 2019, 23:02

SirCallen wrote:
charlemango wrote:How did you do this??????

https://www.cameo.com/

Ear gave $5 to a mentally diseased individual who will do anything to hold onto his fragile tether to relevancy.


I didn't give you $5
There's sand in my teeth
User avatar
Armenia Sargsyan
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2120
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger ID: 2106182

01 Apr 2019, 06:56

Roast'd

Forum Info

Return to “General”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests