ALT + D

[gibson]

Honestly not worth wasting time answering jerom and papist, they just lack the common sense required to make a difference between obvious glitches and abusing well defined mechanics. I'm being rude but it's just the truth

I'd say you can't defend the views that you consider obvious, and thus you just resort to insulting people instead. If only you had the common sense and mental capacity to defend your views.

In this thread there are zero solid arguments to prove that alt-d is a cheat. There's not a single reason that shows why alt-d is somehow inherently unfair. People that back up and just claim "its obvious" are very sad people in my eyes. Don't you guys want a reason to believe something? Or is just following your very first instinct of what others have said for the rest of your life enough for you? I'm happy I'm not such a simple sheep.

Lol you're really trying to take the moral high ground? The very definition of the word fair is in accordance with the rules. Alt-d breaks the rules of the game, the only way you're supposed to be able to revive your explorer once down is 1) getting LOS of him when he has 25 percent health or 2)paying for him, so by definition it is unfair. And please don't respond to this, I really don't want to engage in conversation with you,as you're stupid and lack common sense, the only reason why I'm quoting you is to give some frame of reference for newer or lower level players who might be reading the idiotic jumble of words that you call a post and think its okay to alt-D.

[Mr_Bramboy]

No one is trying to argue you here.

[aligator92]

So I did not read the large majority of this thread but since this is still going on and apparantly noone has given Jerom a satisfying reason to disapprove of using Alt + D I wanna share my thoughts aswell:

Do I think it is on the same level as spawning units or OoSing? no
Do I think using it is acceptable? no
How do I react to people doing it? After the first time, I tell them that I don't accept it and after a second time I stop playing with these people.

'If it is cheating, why is it in the game?' Sadly I don't have an answer to this but I guess they implemented it to test something else and forgot to remove it.

Why do I consider its use to be unacceptable?
Well since there are two other ways to revive an explorer (letting it heal, then wake it up or pay resources (ransom,dance)) both of which demand an investment from your side. It makes no sense to be able to just revive it for free.
Also it gives you a huge advantage. Imagine being germany, as the civ relies heavily on a tp it is part of your strategy to not lose your exploerer before you made your TP. With Alt-D you can do whatever you want and still get it. Imagine any other civ, you lose your explorer in age 1 mid map, no way of getting him back easily. Just Alt-D walk back to base, heal up and have a couple hundreds of tank HP for the first musk fights. Imagine a treasure contention, you lose your explorer to either the treasure or your opponent, so after after he kills the guardians Alt-D and get a 50% chance at a treasure you had no right to get.

'It also has drawbacks. You might lose it again'
Yeah if you revive it right next to your opponent like an idiot. Again imagine being germany, your opponent took a lot of effort, sacrificing scouting time and treasures to hunt down your explorer and he finally killed it. But if Alt-D is ok, he now has to camp your dead explorer forever, sacrificing even more scouting and treasuring time. Same for japan and shrining monks. Using Alt-D is effectively killing an entire unit which has to camp you now. Same for his use as tank. What is the problem with less LOS if you will only use him to tank shots anyway? Or what would you rather do? Gift your opponent another 45XP and tank a falconet volley with your revived explorer or take that hit with your infantery and give your opponent 60XP?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

I don't think reviving explorer by changing it's stance was intented. What would be the purpose of it? Pull trick and treasure guard creeping have a purpose, they make the game a lot more functional, if they didn't exist the game would be a lot crappier.

It definitely wasn't intended and I don't think anyone here is arguing that is was. The problem I have is with people calling alt d cheating because "it's a bug", while defending other bugs.

Alt + D is definitely not cheating in my opinion, I said that in my first post. It's however clearly an unintended feature people use to gain unfair advantage, the difference between reviving your exlorer to build a TP or steal a treasure or scouting and having a dead explorer is very big and could be game changing.
How could you compare alt + D to actual intended game mechanics that require (minimal) skill and effort and actually make some sense?

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

[loloekie10]

I personally would be in favor of actually allowing alt+D in tournaments. Even though it is quite an ugly game mechanic (if you could call it that) like many have pointed out, I find it even uglier that you are not allowed to use something that is actually in the game in a competitive setting.

I'd say a good approach would be to allow everything that is in the game and available to you through the actual game menu (so no messing with game files outside the game), implying that if alt+D can not be removed from the game, we should accept that it exists and consider its possible balance impact in the patch changes.

That is just my opinion tho.

[Sargsyan]

Show hidden quotes

I don't think reviving explorer by changing it's stance was intented. What would be the purpose of it? Pull trick and treasure guard creeping have a purpose, they make the game a lot more functional, if they didn't exist the game would be a lot crappier.

It definitely wasn't intended and I don't think anyone here is arguing that is was. The problem I have is with people calling alt d cheating because "it's a bug", while defending other bugs.

Alt + D is definitely not cheating in my opinion, I said that in my first post. It's however clearly an unintended feature people use to gain unfair advantage, the difference between reviving your exlorer to build a TP or steal a treasure or scouting and having a dead explorer is very big and could be game changing.
How could you compare alt + D to actual intended game mechanics that require (minimal) skill and effort and actually make some sense?

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

How is that fair that you cant snare with india. How is that fair that zambs have lower hp than goons.
Seriously this thread is complete bullshit with bullshit arguments, dont know how one can be bothered to even answer to these nonsense posts. Although i just did

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

I don't think reviving explorer by changing it's stance was intented. What would be the purpose of it? Pull trick and treasure guard creeping have a purpose, they make the game a lot more functional, if they didn't exist the game would be a lot crappier.

It definitely wasn't intended and I don't think anyone here is arguing that is was. The problem I have is with people calling alt d cheating because "it's a bug", while defending other bugs.

Alt + D is definitely not cheating in my opinion, I said that in my first post. It's however clearly an unintended feature people use to gain unfair advantage, the difference between reviving your exlorer to build a TP or steal a treasure or scouting and having a dead explorer is very big and could be game changing.
How could you compare alt + D to actual intended game mechanics that require (minimal) skill and effort and actually make some sense?

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

How is that fair that you cant snare with india. How is that fair that zambs have lower hp than goons.
Seriously this thread is complete bullshit with bullshit arguments, dont know how one can be bothered to even answer to these nonsense posts. Although i just did

Tedere claimed that alt-d was bad because it allowed to get away with mistakes, my point is that it's the same with pull trick.

[tabben]

esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads

[gibson]

esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads

@Papist

[Mr_Bramboy]

Not surprised seeing this point of view from Jerom. He is a Socialist after all. Having a flawed viewpoint is in their blood. Let me just reiterate GEOTUS: America Will Never Be A Socialist Country!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKF_590azfw

[deleted_user]

You know the concept of germane discussion is just that - conceptual, man.

[Papist]

Honestly not worth wasting time answering jerom and papist, they just lack the common sense required to make a difference between obvious glitches and abusing well defined mechanics. I'm being rude but it's just the truth

"Well defined mechanic" is a standard you made up just now. It's completely subjective and has no bearing on whether creeping and the pull trick are bugs or not. Does a bug magically stops being a bug if it's "well defined", i.e. people use it a lot and center their play around it?

Not even going to bother responding to the personal attacks. I'l just say that after arguing with you many times, I have come to expect nothing less

[tedere12]

Show hidden quotes

I don't think reviving explorer by changing it's stance was intented. What would be the purpose of it? Pull trick and treasure guard creeping have a purpose, they make the game a lot more functional, if they didn't exist the game would be a lot crappier.

It definitely wasn't intended and I don't think anyone here is arguing that is was. The problem I have is with people calling alt d cheating because "it's a bug", while defending other bugs.

Alt + D is definitely not cheating in my opinion, I said that in my first post. It's however clearly an unintended feature people use to gain unfair advantage, the difference between reviving your exlorer to build a TP or steal a treasure or scouting and having a dead explorer is very big and could be game changing.
How could you compare alt + D to actual intended game mechanics that require (minimal) skill and effort and actually make some sense?

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

And you can also snare an enemy explorer back to free yourself from snare. It is an intented mechanic that requires (little) skill in contrast to using alt + D to revive your explorer after you have caused plenty of damage to your enemy's explorer by standing still and putting no effort in getting away.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

I don't think reviving explorer by changing it's stance was intented. What would be the purpose of it? Pull trick and treasure guard creeping have a purpose, they make the game a lot more functional, if they didn't exist the game would be a lot crappier.

It definitely wasn't intended and I don't think anyone here is arguing that is was. The problem I have is with people calling alt d cheating because "it's a bug", while defending other bugs.

Alt + D is definitely not cheating in my opinion, I said that in my first post. It's however clearly an unintended feature people use to gain unfair advantage, the difference between reviving your exlorer to build a TP or steal a treasure or scouting and having a dead explorer is very big and could be game changing.
How could you compare alt + D to actual intended game mechanics that require (minimal) skill and effort and actually make some sense?

Again, why is it an unfair advantage if both players can use it?

because not both players have the opportunity to use it in order to gain an advantage. The way I see it, using alt + D to revive your explorer is equal to making certain mistakes and getting away with them/not getting punished as you should. Therefore, they gain an advantage over what should happen if they didn't revive their explorer.

When you get snared as India because you didn't pay attention, you van escape with pull trick. How is that fair?

And you can also snare an enemy explorer back to free yourself from snare. It is an intented mechanic that requires (little) skill in contrast to using alt + D to revive your explorer after you have caused plenty of damage to your enemy's explorer by standing still and putting no effort in getting away.

And you can micro to prevent your opponent from escaping that way.

[Mitoe]

Personally I think it's a bug that the hunts run away from the unit that shot at them. It was clearly intended to be completely random. Intentionally "herding" hunts should be banned from tournaments and competitive play in general. This is, of course, an objectively indisputable fact.

[kami_ryu]

making units is an exploit

[BrookG]

esoc needs an oos function for derailed threads

it had, its name was hleung

[macacoalbino]

Show hidden quotes

Is it cheat if I put back a chess piece on the board after its been beaten? Does it make a difference if my opponent sees it and could also do it?

Chess has explicit rules while aoe3 does not, so your comparison is faulty.

My question was rather about the fact that just because both can do it, is it not cheating?

It can still be cheating. I don't want to prove alt-d isn't cheating, because that is actually not possible. I want to show people that it isn't as obvious of a matter as they think. It's actually a pretty complicated question and the discussion should end up with the conclusion that alt-d is only cheating because people have decided it to be cheating.

So in that aspect, the only relevant thing about both being able to do it is that it invalidates arguments like those presented by macaco.

I'd argue that for something that is part of the game, that is not explicitly forbidden, that one should provide actual arguments as to why it is cheating. I don't actually think those arguments are there.

Lol you are just delusional hahahaha
Alt d a japs explorer and poof it away while it has just enough hp to survive 1-2 shots from the explorer guarding its body. What a fair game mechanic
Sry for reviving a dead topic but I have to make my point haha

[deleted_user]

Show hidden quotes

Is it cheat if I put back a chess piece on the board after its been beaten? Does it make a difference if my opponent sees it and could also do it?

Chess has explicit rules while aoe3 does not, so your comparison is faulty.

My question was rather about the fact that just because both can do it, is it not cheating?

It can still be cheating. I don't want to prove alt-d isn't cheating, because that is actually not possible. I want to show people that it isn't as obvious of a matter as they think. It's actually a pretty complicated question and the discussion should end up with the conclusion that alt-d is only cheating because people have decided it to be cheating.

So in that aspect, the only relevant thing about both being able to do it is that it invalidates arguments like those presented by macaco.

I'd argue that for something that is part of the game, that is not explicitly forbidden, that one should provide actual arguments as to why it is cheating. I don't actually think those arguments are there.

Lol you are just delusional hahahaha
Alt d a japs explorer and poof it away while it has just enough hp to survive 1-2 shots from the explorer guarding its body. What a fair game mechanic
Sry for reviving a dead topic but I have to make my point haha

Alt D has downsides. You even call it a mechanic yourself. It's silly to think that every mechanic should be perfectly fair, because then the game would be pong.

[fightinfrenchman]

An announcement from Shoenice

[charlemango]

How did you do this??????

[fightinfrenchman]

How did you do this??????

Shoenice feels strongly about this topic

[deleted_user]

How did you do this??????

https://www.cameo.com/

Ear gave $5 to a mentally diseased individual who will do anything to hold onto his fragile tether to relevancy.

[fightinfrenchman]

How did you do this??????

https://www.cameo.com/

Ear gave $5 to a mentally diseased individual who will do anything to hold onto his fragile tether to relevancy.

I didn't give you $5

[Sargsyan]

Roast'd