Dutch lategame

Dutch Lategame

Poll ended at 17 Mar 2019, 08:28

Strong
3
6%
weak
9
18%
Spam Ruyters
4
8%
Spam Skirmisher
5
10%
Spam Halberdier
1
2%
Insane Eco
0
No votes
Not very Good Eco
7
14%
Not that bad
11
22%
it's bad
11
22%
 
Total votes: 51

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Italy Mosx
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Dutch lategame

Post by Mosx »

After poll russia lategame ,Russia at the ends finish top3, now poll for dutch late game . :flowers:
op mechanics, op build order :export: :coin: :ugly: :uglylol: :maniac:

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Vietnam duckzilla
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by duckzilla »

Well, Dutch have the weakest late-game eco of all old world civilizations. Fully upgraded, their banks are worth roughly ~35 villagers, which means that the entire dutch eco (50 vills + 35 vills = 85 vills) is 15% less productive than usual.

Additionally, Dutch is in a specific dilemma since 1) all units are coin heavy and 2) villagers available to gather coin are fewer than for other civs (max 20), which lead to 3) gathering cards (Royal Mint) are far less useful and 4) the Dutch eco (given its goal of producing combat units) is even worse.

In a prolonged game, the Dutch bonus of having a huge pop space becomes more difficult to use due to ressource restrictions.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
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Italy Mosx
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Mosx »

8 bank plus tulip specialisation are not that bad this give Dutch as 80 VILL on coin if I don't wrong
op mechanics, op build order :export: :coin: :ugly: :uglylol: :maniac:

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Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Hazza54321 »

Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mosx wrote:8 bank plus tulip specialisation are not that bad this give Dutch as 80 VILL on coin if I don't wrong

No, rather 40 vills, so that's like 90 vills which is not a great eco. On top of that, Dutch doesn't have great units, ruyters are okay but nothing special compared to goons, their skirms while upgradable with shipments aren't as good as the French or German skirms, and their cav is nothing special.
You have to rely on a skirm/goon/canon composition with a weak eco which isn't great.
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills


wafuq? where does the 10th come from? I thought it's 4 (re) or 5 (ep) + 2 from church and 2 from cards.
Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Dutch lategame

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Post by Hazza54321 »

umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills


wafuq? where does the 10th come from? I thought it's 4 (re) or 5 (ep) + 2 from church and 2 from cards.

U can build 2 more with dutch capital coin upgrade noob
Vietnam duckzilla
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by duckzilla »

Hazza54321 wrote:
umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills


wafuq? where does the 10th come from? I thought it's 4 (re) or 5 (ep) + 2 from church and 2 from cards.

U can build 2 more with dutch capital coin upgrade noob

capital => capitol

As was already pointed out, there are up to 10 banks which dutch can build. Though there is of course the downside of paying with 10% speed for all military units, weakening your combat abilities slightly.

Let's compare banks to villagers in a best-case scenario for Dutch, assuming that you sent exactly one upgrade card for coin gathering:
  • Banks gather 2.75c per second. With Tulip Speculation (+15%) this is increased to 3.16c per second.
  • Villagers gather ~0.355 coin per second. Doing the usual plantation upgrades + capitol upgrades and assuming that Royal Mint was sent we get: 0.355 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.25) = 0.83c per second.
  • A bank in this setup is worth 3.16/0.83 = 3.8 villagers and the maximum dutch economy in this best-case scenario would worth 88 villagers.

BUT: All other civs can send further cards for improved coin gather rates! The longer the game goes (and the more eco cards are sent), the worse the Dutch economy will perform! Also any native trading post upgrades which affect coin gather rates (e.g. Sufi, Udasi) do nothing for Dutch!


[Gather rates: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14218]
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:
umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills


wafuq? where does the 10th come from? I thought it's 4 (re) or 5 (ep) + 2 from church and 2 from cards.

U can build 2 more with dutch capital coin upgrade noob


LMAO, i never knew this. is this on nilla too? so on EP dutch can get 11 banks?
Great Britain WickedCossack
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Re: Dutch lategame

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Post by WickedCossack »

Hazza54321 wrote:
umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Its 10 banks in imperial and it is less than50 vills


wafuq? where does the 10th come from? I thought it's 4 (re) or 5 (ep) + 2 from church and 2 from cards.

U can build 2 more with dutch capital coin upgrade noob


:shock: :shock: :shock:

I am going to assume temporary amnesia as I refuse to believe someone of Umeu's experience can not know this.
Great Britain WickedCossack
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by WickedCossack »

umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

U can build 2 more with dutch capital coin upgrade noob


LMAO, i never knew this. is this on nilla too? so on EP dutch can get 11 banks?


You're shitting me.
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by deleted_user0 »

WickedCossack wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


LMAO, i never knew this. is this on nilla too? so on EP dutch can get 11 banks?


You're shitting me.


my games never go age5 =_=

idk, i may have known this when i used to play dutch on nilla and then forgot it... but meh, doesn't ring a bell.
Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Dutch lategame

  • Quote

Post by Hazza54321 »

Cos u bad and never last that long in aoe or in the bedroom
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:Cos u bad and never last that long in aoe or in the bedroom


ye i like it quick and nasty. you never complained, you always let me go right all over you!
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Hazza54321 »

BBC
India Shikari
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Shikari »

Just how are dutch skrims worse than french or even german skirms? Dutch have superior skirm cards than french. French have only hp skirm card in age2 and an team atk card in age 3 germans have only 1 skirm card that too im age4.
I think only civ with better "skirms" are iroquois.
Germany amiggo1999
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by amiggo1999 »

France and germany have royal guard upgrade, whereas dutch only has guard upgrade. But I think Dutch skirms should be on par if not better than german skirms, since Germany never really has/(should have) the upgrade card in the Deck.
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Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Hazza54321 »

Dutch skirms are just better though, france doesn’t have more than 1 skirm card even in team deck nor do they have AA, same with german, meanwhile dutch for sure has Aa
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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by jesus3 »

just summon opwillem
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Australia Kawapasaka
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Kawapasaka »

Always annoyed me that German skirms are weaker than Dutch despite having royal guard. Same with Russian Grenadiers and Otto Hussars. Just feels wrong.
Germany only gets 1 crappy age 4 skirm upgrade card that France has access to in age 2 (and an even better one as well).
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Dutch lategame

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Dutch lategame is tremendous. Many Moroccans. Not much Monarchy support. Sad!
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Lukas_L99 »

French>Dutch>Ger in terms of skirms in lategame with all cards considered.
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Isle of Man UpMySleeves
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by UpMySleeves »

I don’t know about treaty but in team supremacy games Dutch has always felt pretty much the weakest civ. I guess they have more pop space for military units but in reality they just get melted most of the time. If only they had some good bank boosting cards in Industrial.

How are they even played in treaty, or they just aren`t?
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by Lukas_L99 »

UpMySleeves wrote:
How are they even played in treaty, or they just aren`t?


Worst euro civ.
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Re: Dutch lategame

Post by deleted_user0 »

Shikari wrote:Just how are dutch skrims worse than french or even german skirms? Dutch have superior skirm cards than french. French have only hp skirm card in age2 and an team atk card in age 3 germans have only 1 skirm card that too im age4.
I think only civ with better "skirms" are iroquois.


Wakina are solid too. With the bb, card and auras from some teepees and hero theyre very strong. Unction skirs from spain as well, but ye

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