Throwback to the best casted match in ESOC history https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=687. During this match, ESOCTV had the highest amount of viewers for a while until that record was broken in the quarter-finals.
ye, was a close one!
-Deep down I know it's me, and deep down I know you are so jealous :).- Sir_Musket 2018
I don't think any currently active players would make the cut considering how much more competitive the game used to be. Maybe raffle, if we can count him as active. But consider how much better than everyone H2O was around 2015-2017 even though he was barely active. He still beat everyone regardless, except BSOP, who I'd put in the top 5. Kid had a lot of talent, and quit before fully realizing it I think. Challe underrated. Peak Challe was giving Sam a run for his money, won at least one tournament in the ASFP days. Parfait overretd. Not putting grunt at #1, H2O at #2 (with some distance tbh) is just silly. A lot of people understandably forget players like NaturePhoenix, StarSky, Flooky etc. Nobumanteikoku might be in there somewhere, it's hard to tell because he may have been the best player for a while but there were either no tournaments then or he didn't participate in them. Aelena was very good, but a nilla scrub.
Goodspeed wrote:Nobumanteikoku might be in there somewhere, it's hard to tell because he may have been the best player for a while but there were either no tournaments then or he didn't participate in them. Aelena was very good, but a nilla scrub.
Had the pleasure of meeting nobuman in person, was fun. Actually was day before I fought Somppu's india with russia on the floor of a Japanese business hotel. Plz no discriminate against nilla scrubs though
Goodspeed wrote:I don't think any currently active players would make the cut considering how much more competitive the game used to be. Maybe raffle, if we can count him as active. But consider how much better than everyone H2O was around 2015-2017 even though he was barely active. He still beat everyone regardless, except BSOP, who I'd put in the top 5. Kid had a lot of talent, and quit before fully realizing it I think. Challe underrated. Peak Challe was giving Sam a run for his money, won at least one tournament in the ASFP days. Parfait overretd. Not putting grunt at #1, H2O at #2 (with some distance tbh) is just silly. A lot of people understandably forget players like NaturePhoenix, StarSky, Flooky etc. Nobumanteikoku might be in there somewhere, it's hard to tell because he may have been the best player for a while but there were either no tournaments then or he didn't participate in them. Aelena was very good, but a nilla scrub.
Would LordRaphael not be on the list? (assuming he is active) I have never seen any of the other players you mention.
Goodspeed wrote:I don't think any currently active players would make the cut considering how much more competitive the game used to be.
My pride wants to say that surely there would be some players now who would do quite well in the past, but then remember at how laughable most current players’ mechanics are and have to agree with you. :(
Though, to be honest I don’t recall being all that impressed by older players’ mechanics in VODs either, but there’s so much less content from back then that it’s hard to find any truly good games to begin with
To be top 10 ever, you have to had a win percent of about 90 for quite a while. Sam had that during FP days.
Flooky I've always thought of as really good, and one of the few PR 50 players, one of the only players I never took a game off, I think.
It's hard to speak about mechanics of the old players. Were talking about times before twitch, hell, I remember how rare iamgrunt recorded games were that once someone somehow uploaded a grunt rec to agesanc, and it got 10k downloads pretty fast. I only played grunt once and it was of saguenay and I only had my starting hunt lol.
Hate me haters but I'd say that best players of 2019 would shit on "legendary old school players".
Meta has evolved a lot and game has been taken to extreme measures where no single units are "suicided", constant pull tricks are abused, explo snare countered immediately etc.
memories grow sweeter with time and relative dominance create illusions... I mean, do we have any examples of old school stars dominating in last years? Counter-example is Garja. This guy was really good in 2014 - or the level of the gameplay was low, that even though he plays somewhat constantly, he seems to win nobody good nowadays. Has Garja gotten really SO MUCH worse or has the level of gameplay increased in general? Probably both.
Goodspeed wrote:I don't think any currently active players would make the cut considering how much more competitive the game used to be.
My pride wants to say that surely there would be some players now who would do quite well in the past, but then remember at how laughable most current players’ mechanics are and have to agree with you. :(
Though, to be honest I don’t recall being all that impressed by older players’ mechanics in VODs either, but there’s so much less content from back then that it’s hard to find any truly good games to begin with
I think rather than comparing gameplay from then to now we should try to find links between the players' relative skill levels. H2O is about the only link we have, and he continued to do extremely well in the past years even though he wasn't active, while he had to train very hard and even hide his build order to win that WCG. In other words peak H2O was much stronger than he was in 2015, but even 2015 H2O beat everyone. It's also just a numbers game. The competitive community is tiny compared to how it was, meaning we can safely assume that the players who did very well in those days were "exceptional". Exceptional players now would be beating everyone somewhat convincingly. I think BSOP is the only newer player that qualifies, meaning he would have been a top 5 player even in those days. The difference is that then, he would have had rivals. Now, he doesn't.
Pretty useless to make a list. Except for Grunt and H2o at #1 and #2. Grunt for his Incredible dominance when he was active is easily the best of all time and H2o for being at the Peak for almst a decade and for beating grunt in a final is second. After that it becomes blurry because Players played during different times which really makes it Kind of hard to Judge. Instead id rather do a pool of like 20 Players who can be considered as the greatest in the game, but without a specific ranking. Maybe you could also put in samwise at #3 , now that i think of it.
breeze wrote:
they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
somppukunkku wrote:Hate me haters but I'd say that best players of 2019 would shit on "legendary old school players".
Meta has evolved a lot and game has been taken to extreme measures where no single units are "suicided", constant pull tricks are abused, explo snare countered immediately etc.
memories grow sweeter with time and relative dominance create illusions... I mean, do we have any examples of old school stars dominating in last years? Counter-example is Garja. This guy was really good in 2014 - or the level of the gameplay was low, that even though he plays somewhat constantly, he seems to win nobody good nowadays.
If in some magical land both the old and current players were to be active in the same meta it's hard to say who would win. Sure, if you were to take a time machine and throw a top player today into 2009 he might be able to win almost every game off the back of the extra 10 years of game knowledge--as long as the patch is similar, at least, but obviously that's not realistic at all.
Also some players just don't adapt to meta shifts very fast or very well. That's why a lot of older players struggle nowadays I feel.
Goodspeed wrote:I don't think any currently active players would make the cut considering how much more competitive the game used to be.
My pride wants to say that surely there would be some players now who would do quite well in the past, but then remember at how laughable most current players’ mechanics are and have to agree with you. :(
Though, to be honest I don’t recall being all that impressed by older players’ mechanics in VODs either, but there’s so much less content from back then that it’s hard to find any truly good games to begin with
I think rather than comparing gameplay from then to now we should try to find links between the players' relative skill levels. H2O is about the only link we have, and he continued to do extremely well in the past years even though he wasn't active, while he had to train very hard and even hide his build order to win that WCG. In other words peak H2O was much stronger than he was in 2015, but even 2015 H2O beat everyone. It's also just a numbers game. The competitive community is tiny compared to how it was, meaning we can safely assume that the players who did very well in those days were "exceptional". Exceptional players now would be beating everyone somewhat convincingly. I think BSOP is the only newer player that qualifies, meaning he would have been a top 5 player even in those days. The difference is that then, he would have had rivals. Now, he doesn't.
Yeah, that's true. I remember playing with Ryan he always said that he never felt as good as he did in 2008.
I also remember that he pretty much redefined the metagame by himself when he started playing again in 2015 so much so that a lot of the meta builds at the time like dual rax xbow/pike became obsolete.
In the current meta im pretty sure we'd give the D quite easily to old pros. But that's just because of the ton of extra knowledge and builds we gathered over time. For that reason it's very hard to compare different periods, like I know myself or Mitoe were getting rather close to h2o's level at the end, but who knows the gap between 2017 h2o and peak h2o. In terms of mechanics, I agree with Mitoe. Even a couple years ago, I remember I was much more exigent towards my own mechanics, while currently it feels like it's not the case anymore. Anyone gets to colonel with garbage mechanics tbh. Feels like I'm just getting worse mechanically and winning games by masturbating on some strats and timings, and I'l pretty sure Mitoe can relate to that.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
agrondergermane 
deleted_user0 
GiBthedurrty 
Hazza54321 
[Armag] diarouga 
