how would you rank the top 10 aoe3 players of all time

[Hazza54321]

Well i mean its not always the same people on a team, even in tournaments players have been mixing

[deleted_user0]

Well, it shows that players' macro is much better today. And it's not "just a couple of games", in all the games we see that they make a lot of macro mistakes.

I dont think its better today, or that much worse tbh. Every series we see a top player stacking 2k of some res in a critical period of the game. Boneng was even quite famous for winning games despite that lol

[Aizamk]

Well, it shows that players' macro is much better today. And it's not "just a couple of games", in all the games we see that they make a lot of macro mistakes.

I dont think its better today, or that much worse tbh. Every series we see a top player stacking 2k of some res in a critical period of the game. Boneng was even quite famous for winning games despite that lol

I agree, macro isn't so important in aoe3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syggj8TCbSY
since you're here, remember this? xD

[deleted_user0]

Well, it shows that players' macro is much better today. And it's not "just a couple of games", in all the games we see that they make a lot of macro mistakes.

I dont think its better today, or that much worse tbh. Every series we see a top player stacking 2k of some res in a critical period of the game. Boneng was even quite famous for winning games despite that lol

I agree, macro isn't so important in aoe3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syggj8TCbSY
since you're here, remember this? xD

thats not what i said, and yes i remember that game. what about it?

[SoldieR]

Grunt would win literally 95% of his games. Like, for real, he would win 95 out of 100 games. And he did not noob bash, pretty sure he only allowed pr35+ in his games. Think about that.

When Ryan beat him at wcg, losing 4 games, that's probably close to the most he lost in an entire month of his time playing.

Skills were different then, but it's all really just about winning vs the competition at that time that matters.

To say you could beat grunt is a pretty bold statement.

[Mitoe]

Show hidden quotes

Well, it shows that players' macro is much better today. And it's not "just a couple of games", in all the games we see that they make a lot of macro mistakes.

I dont think its better today, or that much worse tbh. Every series we see a top player stacking 2k of some res in a critical period of the game. Boneng was even quite famous for winning games despite that lol

I agree, macro isn't so important in aoe3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syggj8TCbSY
since you're here, remember this? xD

thats not what i said, and yes i remember that game. what about it?

He might be referring to a point in the game where you're housed and floating 900 wood and 700 coin

[Sargsyan]

Btw where did h2o vs grunt series disappear, i cant find their games on YouTube

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

Well, it shows that players' macro is much better today. And it's not "just a couple of games", in all the games we see that they make a lot of macro mistakes.

I dont think its better today, or that much worse tbh. Every series we see a top player stacking 2k of some res in a critical period of the game. Boneng was even quite famous for winning games despite that lol

I agree, macro isn't so important in aoe3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syggj8TCbSY
since you're here, remember this? xD

thats not what i said, and yes i remember that game. what about it?

He might be referring to a point in the game where you're housed and floating 900 wood and 700 coin

its the first time i did that bo :/ also the last lol XD

[Hazza54321]

Idk the bo of stacking 900w and being housed sounds optimal to me

[Goodspeed]

Yeah it was clearly a calculated risk. Umeu assumed he would be losing army and that he wouldn't need houses, and could potentially spend the wood on other things. While this was uncertain, it had to be stacked.

[deleted_user0]

seems more like i sent 2 crates in a row and didn't have food income to do anything with it. i only missed 1 grenadier because of being housed at that moment, so it wasn't really relevant. the only thing that can be said is that 700w was a bad shipment to send, shouldve sent 700f or something

in any case, that just illustrates my point, every series ull see someone messing up macro. aiz shouldnt even talk about this, as hes one of the worst in this department after boneng lol.

[[Armag] diarouga]

To say you could beat grunt is a pretty bold statement.

Pretty sure he wouldn't deal with my Aztec FI the first time he plays against it lol.

[Garja]

Pretty sure he would crush it without u reaching industrial.

[Scroogie]

a thread for hurt feelings and stroking of the e-peen

This man is the true mastermind. He should lead the Top10 lists.

[gibson]

There's no research that can be done. All that can be said is that the larger the player base, the higher the level of play, for any sport or game. The player base was larger back in the old days so its likely the level of play was higher.

Please, stop being so stubborn lol, that's just wrong.
The larger the player base is, the more competitive the game is. However, while the game is less competitive, the level of play isn't lower because the game has evolved. Our meta is now smarter because we learnt a lot from old pros, and although we don't think that today's players are good mechanically, they also learnt from the older players and improved.

As a result, the level of play is overall higher today than it was before. The exceptions are the player who dominated in the past (Sam, H2O, grunt) because they were ahead of their time but that's it.
What you can say, however, is that the old pros were more talented because they learnt to play alone and they didn't copy the other players, but that doesn't make them stronger.
Just look at the old ratings, some trash guys were top 10 in 2007-2009, like Glouk_The_Boss who's barely pr20 today.

Obviously people play the game smarter which is why it's been said multiple times you can't make a direct comparison cause a player playing today vs an old player would probably win pretty easily, at least for a short period of time. It's about the overall skill level according to the current meta, which was likely higher when the game came out.

[Mitoe]

To say you could beat grunt is a pretty bold statement.

Pretty sure he wouldn't deal with my Aztec FI the first time he plays against it lol.

This is a stupid argument, though. What does it prove if you beat him the first time if he beats you the next 9 times.

What matters is whether or not you could beat him consistently, otherwise literally everything you've been trying to say in this thread is false.

[gibson]

To say you could beat grunt is a pretty bold statement.

Pretty sure he wouldn't deal with my Aztec FI the first time he plays against it lol.

This is a stupid argument, though. What does it prove if you beat him the first time if he beats you the next 9 times.

Yea exactly, piroshikis beaten just about everyone at least once but once you figure out his strat he almost always loses. You can beat anyone once or twice with cheese.

[[Armag] diarouga]

To say you could beat grunt is a pretty bold statement.

Pretty sure he wouldn't deal with my Aztec FI the first time he plays against it lol.

This is a stupid argument, though. What does it prove if you beat him the first time if he beats you the next 9 times.

What matters is whether or not you could beat him consistently, otherwise literally everything you've been trying to say in this thread is false.

Well, if I have 10 builds he can't beat in one try, it means I would beat him.

Anyway, I think that grunt, Sam and H2O are exceptions. With some time, they would (and _H2O has proved it) still be better than us. Still, even with some time to adapt to the meta, they wouldn't be as dominant as they before because the overall level is higher, and they wouldn't keep a 90-95% winrate against the top10.

I also believe that the other old pros (Flooky, parfait, Ourk etc) might reach the top 10 if they have enough time to practice, but imo they would never be clearly better than the current top players.

[Mitoe]

I'm pretty sure that it would only take 1-2 losses before he starts anticipating that you're going to do something weird and make sure to scout more and take less risks; doesn't matter if you're doing a new build every single game, he's not going to just lose all 10 of them because he's never seen them before. If you can beat him by cheesing him in this way though, congratz, but you won't continue to be successful. Anyone can lose to cheese--that's why people do it.

[deleted_user]

Parfait saddens me. He moved on to Starcraft and never came back not once.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Parfait saddens me. He moved on to Starcraft and never came back not once.

What's his league there?

[gryphoon94]

Parfait saddens me. He moved on to Starcraft and never came back not once.

What's his league there?

Heard he got top 15 GM EU

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

I just want to emphasize a very important point that GS made. Skill and knowledge are two very different things and are relative.

If you just know more about something today, whether it is the history of the planet or an exact build order up to seconds, imo that doesnt make you intelligent. It just means you had more information to absorb over time, compared to someone practising the same X years ago. Coming up with a new build order yourself does require intelligence and creativity though.

It will take a little bit of time for 'old pros' to catch up to current meta and knowledge, which has obviously improved. Knowledge is important, but its not the whole story. When the old pros are at this new level because they are capable of catching up quickly by just learning this new mostly static information, they will still have their other more dynamic skills and game understanding. These, such as decision making and adaptation, are not as easily learned.

It's similar to telling someone the exact steps to catch a fish in situation X and place Y. Instead of explaining him how fishing works, so that he can do it in every situation and every place by himself. The first is just pushing infomation and knowledge, the second is skill and understanding. The first is unfortunately done too much today, in schools too. The second is what teachers should aim for (and what I tried to do with people in aoe3 as well), but what happens less these days.

[Mitoe]

I just want to emphasize a very important point that GS made. Skill and knowledge are two very different things and are relative.

For Diarouga knowledge IS skill in AoE3. He's made it very clear many times on this forum that he thinks mechanics are basically meaningless.

[Hazza54321]

Mitoe being passive aggressive :Ooooooooooooo