how would you rank the top 10 aoe3 players of all time

[Imperial Noob]

I have a serious request: could someone knowledgeable cast / recast one or two of the recs with the old pros for the ESOC channel? Sort of a feature episode, describing what the game was like back then, what was it that they were doing, why was that good, or just show some insane mechanics.
@Mitoe maybe? or @Kaiserklein

[Mitoe]

I have a serious request: could someone knowledgeable cast / recast one or two of the recs with the old pros for the ESOC channel? Sort of a feature episode, describing what the game was like back then, what was it that they were doing, why was that good, or just show some insane mechanics.
@Mitoe maybe? or @Kaiserklein

About a year ago I was thinking about doing a mini-documentary on AoE3 WCG 2007 & 2008; still have a lot of the stuff I was going to use (clips and recs mostly) saved somewhere. Sadly laziness and the unwillingness to invest money & time into figuring out how to use some solid video editing software have kinda killed the idea, though (remember a certain German guide anyone?).

[Sargsyan]

No need to buy software, just download vegas pro 14 repack

[Mitoe]

2lazy2learn

[Sargsyan]

Its ez af

[Aizamk]

I have a serious request: could someone knowledgeable cast / recast one or two of the recs with the old pros for the ESOC channel? Sort of a feature episode, describing what the game was like back then, what was it that they were doing, why was that good, or just show some insane mechanics.
@Mitoe maybe? or @Kaiserklein

This would honestly be quite interesting. It’s actually quite difficult to judge a player’s mechanics without a first person view. And after you get a first person view it then becomes incredibly easy to criticize their mechanics.

So it would be nice to have some commentated examples of the mechanics that made a player stand out in the earlier days (back when at my level I’d be nothing more than a captain).

[samwise12]

This question is nearly impossible to answer, as there are so many factors to consider when trying to compare players that played 10 years apart. One thing for sure is Grunt and Mankle are #1 and #2.

Grunt in his prime was on another level, i hadn't hit my peak level when i played against him but i will never forget the feeling i had when playing vs him, it felt like he could pick any civ and do any strat and he would still find a way to outplay you, it was insanely frustrating but also amazing to play against him. Mankle was very similar during his training for WCG 2008, this was when i had just joined skwzz and i was helping the likes of Ourk, Parfait, Luigi and NP train for WCG (UK didnt send a player so i never even got the chance to try and qualify which was annoying, as i think i could've done well). I would win the majority of games vs them (this was still before i would say i was at my best) apart from games vs NP which would be 50/50 but this was mainly down to the fact that he was too stubborn to play jap mirrors and insisted on trying to make Brit work even though they were so clearly the inferior civ. Anyway... as i was an up and coming player during this time i played many games vs all the top players. Mankle gave me the same feeling that Grunt had given me in the past, the feeling of utter hopelessness and just waiting to inevitably lose. His macro and micro was just far crisper than the other players.

Then you have the time in which me and mankel dominated for a good few years, the only other player that i can think of during that time who would truly challenge either of us was Challe, but imo he didn't stay active for long enough periods of time to quite reach our level. Flooky was still near the top of the PR ladder at this time but there was a huge skill gap between me/mankle and him, its just that there was also a big skill gap between Flooky and the majority of ESO so he could still maintain a high rating.

Jump ahead to around 2014/15 when i made a short comeback, Ryan and BSOP were the top players, I can tell you for certain that the level of top players was not comparable to the old top players. Of course the meta evolves over time and builds become far more refined, but the biggest difference i noticed is the ability to adapt and micro was worse. This being said i do believe BSOP was very good, its just hard to gauge just how good. Obviously me and ryan were playing at a lower level in 2015 than we were in 2008- 2011/12?(well I can't speak for Ryan but i know my skill level was much lower than it was in the past) main reasons for this is... long periods of inactivity, massive meta shifts, 5 years is a long time in gamer years; my APM, reactions and decision making were not what they used to be.

As for the Japanese players, some of them were for sure very good (the only one i dont really have a memory of playing against is Nagi), but i dont know if i would rate any of them in the all time top 10. So many memories... and obviously there were many good players from each era that i played in, it's just so hard to compare them as the meta was always so different and it's hard to tell how certain players wouldve adapted or if it wouldve suited their playstyle.

One thing i can tell you for sure is over all of my years is.... GoodSpeed is the biggest dodger ive ever met.

[Aizamk]

One thing i can tell u for sure is over all of my years is.... GoodSpeed is the biggest dodger ive ever met.

@WickedCossack looks like he hasn't met you

[Goodspeed]

The definition of hypocrisy is Samwise12 calling other people dodgers. Kid dodged more games than he played.
@samwise12 Come play?

[samwise12]

maybe

[Mitoe]

So it would be nice to have some commentated examples of the mechanics that made a player stand out in the earlier days (back when at my level I’d be nothing more than a captain).

We'd obviously both be nothing but captains back in the day anyway

[wookl]

2010——2019
1._H2O
2.BlackStar_OP
3.LordRaphael
4.nagayumi
5.IrishFaithful
6.Snowww
7.Samwise12
8.goongoon
9.kynesie
10.Boneng

TOP3 keep high level many years,other players get the list in highlight time .

[Garja]

I feel like lot of the names in these lists are not at all on comparable level.

[princeofkabul]

i dont understand why people keep putting boneng to their lists when there's like 10 more deserving to be there. guess that pk win does that, who knows.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, people just judge from tournament results.

[gibson]

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

Not really.
You claimed above that I didn't deserve to be in the top 10 because I didn't win any major event, but if you look at it closely, the last big ESOC tourney I played in was the 2015 Winter tournament, where I was still quite far from my peak level and where I lost 1-4 to _H2O who then beat raphael 5-0.
Of course I am not in the top 10 aoe3 tournament players of all time, but you can't measure how good I am from tournament results.

[WickedCossack]

One thing i can tell u for sure is over all of my years is.... GoodSpeed is the biggest dodger ive ever met.

@WickedCossack looks like he hasn't met you

That's the true mark of a good dodger.

[gibson]

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

Not really.
You claimed above that I didn't deserve to be in the top 10 because I didn't win any major event, but if you look at it closely, the last big ESOC tourney I played in was the 2015 Winter tournament, where I was still quite far from my peak level and where I lost 1-4 to _H2O who then beat raphael 5-0.
Of course I am not in the top 10 aoe3 tournament players of all time, but you can't measure how good I am from tournament results.

What point are you trying to make? You can be a pugger and win qs and unrated 1v1s all day but ultimately if you don't have tournament results when a discussion comes up about the best players to play the game you(not you specifically) don't deserve to even be mentioned.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

Not really.
You claimed above that I didn't deserve to be in the top 10 because I didn't win any major event, but if you look at it closely, the last big ESOC tourney I played in was the 2015 Winter tournament, where I was still quite far from my peak level and where I lost 1-4 to _H2O who then beat raphael 5-0.
Of course I am not in the top 10 aoe3 tournament players of all time, but you can't measure how good I am from tournament results.

What point are you trying to make? You can be a pugger and win qs and unrated 1v1s all day but ultimately if you don't have tournament results when a discussion comes up about the best players to play the game you(not you specifically) don't deserve to even be mentioned.

Well, if that's about aoe3 achievements then yes.

Still, if a guy doesn't play in tournaments but has a 90% win rate against the guy who won the tournaments (I'm not saying this is my case), then he's the best player.

[deleted_user]

Diarouga is Paul Morphy, guys.

[bwinner]

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

Not really.
You claimed above that I didn't deserve to be in the top 10 because I didn't win any major event, but if you look at it closely, the last big ESOC tourney I played in was the 2015 Winter tournament, where I was still quite far from my peak level and where I lost 1-4 to _H2O who then beat raphael 5-0.
Of course I am not in the top 10 aoe3 tournament players of all time, but you can't measure how good I am from tournament results.

What point are you trying to make? You can be a pugger and win qs and unrated 1v1s all day but ultimately if you don't have tournament results when a discussion comes up about the best players to play the game you(not you specifically) don't deserve to even be mentioned.

diarouga is the only player that makes me feel the same like what samwise has described for grunt and H2O. When I green up a game vs him, I already know I will lose 100%. I am obviously much lower than other top players as well, but when I play vs kaiser, mitoe or raphael, I know that if I play at my very best lvl (like could happend 1 time out of 20 games) I might very well win, while vs diarouga I will always get rekt no matter what. I have only played like 2-3 games vs H20/bsop so maybe it would be the same vs them. I anyway remind that in 2016 diarouga was shitting on everyone including H2O.

[gh0st]

hmm, seems like bwinner is a much better player than I thought.

[t3rror1sta]

h20
bsop
kynesie
Aizamk
Samwise12
NYKNICKS
takuman
Lordraphael
Ourk
Iamgrunt

[Mitoe]

Show hidden quotes

Well tournament results should be the most important metric when measuring how good someone is.

Not really.
You claimed above that I didn't deserve to be in the top 10 because I didn't win any major event, but if you look at it closely, the last big ESOC tourney I played in was the 2015 Winter tournament, where I was still quite far from my peak level and where I lost 1-4 to _H2O who then beat raphael 5-0.
Of course I am not in the top 10 aoe3 tournament players of all time, but you can't measure how good I am from tournament results.

What point are you trying to make? You can be a pugger and win qs and unrated 1v1s all day but ultimately if you don't have tournament results when a discussion comes up about the best players to play the game you(not you specifically) don't deserve to even be mentioned.

diarouga is the only player that makes me feel the same like what samwise has described for grunt and H2O. When I green up a game vs him, I already know I will lose 100%. I am obviously much lower than other top players as well, but when I play vs kaiser, mitoe or raphael, I know that if I play at my very best lvl (like could happend 1 time out of 20 games) I might very well win, while vs diarouga I will always get rekt no matter what. I have only played like 2-3 games vs H20/bsop so maybe it would be the same vs them. I anyway remind that in 2016 diarouga was shitting on everyone including H2O.

BO101 let's go?