India TNT333
Skirmisher
Posts: 126
ESO: TNT333

06 Apr 2019, 18:09

I honestly think we should replace the Iron troop with Manchus frm that card. I feel ot gives China better anti cav if ur wood supplies run out as manchu cost gold
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Germany Lukas_L99
Howdah
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06 Apr 2019, 18:11

Yes
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 912

06 Apr 2019, 18:35

Iron troop is good anti cav.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
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Location: France

06 Apr 2019, 18:48

It's situational, you don't want manchus vs skirm/goon
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Posts: 794

06 Apr 2019, 18:59

Better have both in deck....
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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06 Apr 2019, 19:53

China vs cav is mostly a non problem. Most of times is the cav player who struggle to actually make cav work vs China because of all trash units units screwing pathing and just enough anticav to dps them down.
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Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794

06 Apr 2019, 20:07

Garja wrote:China vs cav is mostly a non problem. Most of times is the cav player who struggle to actually make cav work vs China because of all trash units units screwing pathing and just enough anticav to dps them down.


China vs heavy cav IS a problem, especially cuirs in big numbers.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Location: France

06 Apr 2019, 20:19

Atomiswave wrote:
Garja wrote:China vs cav is mostly a non problem. Most of times is the cav player who struggle to actually make cav work vs China because of all trash units units screwing pathing and just enough anticav to dps them down.


China vs heavy cav IS problem, especially cuirs in big number.

Well, not anymore. Cuir mass used to work very well against China, but now with the redcoat shipment and a lot of cav (the chinese cav is actually more cost efficient than the cuirs), China is just fine vs cav mass. Manchus are still great against cav mass though.
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France Kaiserklein
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Posts: 7219
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

06 Apr 2019, 23:25

I think the OP is talking about the card that lets you train iron troops btw, not the 9 iron troops shipment.
But anyway, iron troops are super OP, especially when trained from the saloon (even better stats than the ones you ship). Having manchus instead of them wouldn't make a difference. The real problem is that shipping a card simply to unlock units in the saloon is most of the time just not viable, because it's too slow.

And imo china doesn't struggle vs cav until mid-late game, when they run out of anti-cav shipments and face strong carded cav like cuirs. Before that point, they do just fine with redcoats, changdaos, their own cav and manchus.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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Posts: 7530
ESO: Garja

07 Apr 2019, 00:19

Bear in mind china also scale in such a way that they get more reinforcement than most of those cav civs. So ye maybe upped cuirs kinda shit on changdao but it still depends on how many and where they fight.
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Canada dansil92
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Posts: 543
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07 Apr 2019, 02:32

My experience with china is that Meteor Hammer - Iron Flail beat basically every other heavy cav in a pinch. You dont have to make changdao lategame since they just die anyway. Heck training the keshik-hand mortar combo is better than qiang.

In a 1v1 situation china shouldnt ever have trouble against heavy cav. Intervention + trained redcoats (or even dopps if your really want them), changdao shipment, a couple of territorial armies, and yes even that manchu shipment against a no/low skirm civ.

Late late game with no wood available etc. The manchu shipment makes 0 difference. Build a monastary and pray for manchu or highlanders or black riders cuz thats your only option unless you just counter cav with fully upgraded china cav (which with all cards are flat out disgusting units in all stats)
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Italy Garja
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07 Apr 2019, 12:01

And btw, china also have keshiks. In late fortress, especially when gold is running out, China can spam them easily and with vet up+x4 card they're legit.
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United States of America Squamiger
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Posts: 142
ESO: Squamiger

09 Apr 2019, 06:19

beiyang army is kinda of an underused but neat china card that I am experimenting with for dealing with more enemy cav than you expected in fortress. 8 steppes 8 keshiks and vet upgrades for both, for a food cost. I think it works because of the more units principle, since usually strong heavy cav like cuirs are going to be fewer in number
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