No Flag Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 598
Location: dormant

14 Apr 2019, 21:44

God tier:
1. Mamelukes
2. Jägers
3. Iron Troops
Good tier:
4. Manchu
5. Black Riders
6. Stradiots
7. Swiss Pikes
Ok:
8. Fusiliers
9. Highlanders
10. Hackapells
Weak:
11. Ronins
12. Elmeti
13. Ninjas
14. Arsonists
15. Yojimbos
Very weak:
16. L'il bombards
17. Jat Lancers
Broken useless:
18. Landsknechts

What do you guys think?
Should:
Yojimbo number 5 in a shipment instead of the 600 :coin: worthy 4?
The Elmeti transport be buffed to 8, since they are a fortress unit?
Jat lancers be moved to age 3 in the saloon?
L'il bombards and landsknechts get a +0.5 or a +1.0 speed buff?

P.S. Yeah, age 4 saloon mamelukes is just an abomination
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Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 743
ESO: HUMMAN

14 Apr 2019, 21:47

is it for saloon only, mams are good as shipment but since they are age4 in EP, they are not good imo. And where is hackapells?!?
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
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ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

14 Apr 2019, 21:52

Elmeti are good, I think. Swiss Pikes not so good, highlanders should swap places with them.

Stradiots are kinda meh imo
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Germany Lukas_L99
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1556
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

14 Apr 2019, 21:57

Arsonists worst, not even a contest
No Flag Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 598
Location: dormant

14 Apr 2019, 22:08

A factor for me was how often do I see them used. I have seen even the Arsonists a couple of times, Stradiots find some use in showmatches as of late, Elmeti are just late to the party and straight into the industrial goon mass game, L'il bombards I think I have seen twice in the last 4 years (H2O and Aiz),

whereas Yojimbos, Jat Lancers and Landsknechts... 0 times

I use the 4 Landsknechts card in German tower rushes, but that is usually at the point where I am winning anyway (they should be 5 for 500c)
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7856
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

14 Apr 2019, 22:10

Imperial Noob wrote:God tier:
1. Mamelukes Yeah obviously, but available in age 4, so essentially irrelevant in fact
2. Jägers Yes, one of the best mercs
3. Iron Troops Probably the best merc along with mams, but available only to china and you have to ship a card, so rather irrelevant
Good tier:
4. Manchu These are probs god tier, though they are hard to micro
5. Black Riders Yeah not super super good, just nice as ger cause it's your only goons
6. Stradiots Very good yes
7. Swiss Pikes Very situational, they have good stats but they're pikes, so rather bad most of the time
Ok:
8. Fusiliers Horrible stats for their cost. I'd call them weak. You can only run around the map with them basically, whenever the opponent has a decent mass of skirms or musks.
9. Highlanders They have insane stats, but yeah they're musks which can be awkward. Definitely better than swiss pikes though for example
10. Hackapells Insane at cav fights and against melee units generally speaking, but rather weak against well microed ranged units, so yeah not ideal
Weak:
11. Ronins Similar to hackapells, very situational, for instance popping 5 ronins from a port tc can be totally op. But overall quite bad yes
12. Elmeti What? They're almost as good as mams. But again, not available before age 4, so kinda irrelevant.
13. Ninjas Yeah, though the stealth is cool
14. Arsonists These are probs the worst merc
15. Yojimbos Rather irrelevant, but actually very strong if you ever get to produce them somehow
Very weak:
16. L'il bombards Yeah they're shit
17. Jat Lancers If you go in trample mode, they're insane I think. Don't remember exactly why, but their trample mode is much better than the one of other cav.
Broken useless:
18. Landsknechts Yes they're the second worst merc probably, but I'd rather have these than arsonists

What do you guys think?
Should:
Yojimbo number 5 in a shipment instead of the 600 :coin: worthy 4? Yes it could probably be 5
The Elmeti transport be buffed to 8, since they are a fortress unit? I think the shipment is fine
Jat lancers be moved to age 3 in the saloon? You unlock them by shipping a card as india, just like iron troops, yojimbos or ronins. They're available in age3
L'il bombards and landsknechts get a +0.5 or a +1.0 speed buff? If we start buffing weak units, we might as well start with halbs, the regular counterpart of lansknechts. +0.5 speed might be a good buff, would have to test. lil bombards arent ever gonna be viable since they cost 1200g each which is just too big of an investment

P.S. Yeah, age 4 saloon mamelukes is just an abomination
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7856
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

14 Apr 2019, 22:12

Mitoe wrote:Elmeti are good, I think. Swiss Pikes not so good, highlanders should swap places with them.

Stradiots are kinda meh imo

Yeah agreed for the 3 first, but I disagree about strads. They have almost 600 hp, 30% rr and 7.25 speed (as fast as goons). So they're a very scary cav when it comes to snaring and tanking, which is exactly what you expect from a cav unit (unlike hackapells). And well still 58 attack. If I could choose between a strad, a hackapell, or a cuir even with cav combat, I'd choose the strad.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No Flag Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 598
Location: dormant

14 Apr 2019, 22:23

@Kaiserklein
right about the Jat Lancers... I have not sent this card for so long that I have forgotten, I only used the age 4 shipment once or twice competitvely

Arsonists can at least deal siege damage at range and siege very well. Landsknechts do not connect with anything, do they?
Maybe right about halberdiers, they could also use a 0.5 speed buff

Since the thread was inspired by your showmatch games today, good to have input from you :flowers:
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7856
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

14 Apr 2019, 22:36

Well arsonists = grenadiers and landsknechts = halberdiers. I'd say overall, we see more halbs than grens, they're a bit more viable. The same goes for arsonists and landsknechts. That's because of the horrible animation and the HI tag of grens/arsonists, making them rather useless.
And on top of it, landsknechts at least have rather scary stats if they do connect, compared to halbs. While arsonists just have quite shitty stats really.

Yeah I guessed there was probably a link between my match and this thread haha
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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United States of America evilcheadar
Jaeger
Posts: 4294
Location: USA

14 Apr 2019, 22:40

Kaiserklein wrote:Well arsonists = grenadiers and landsknechts = halberdiers. I'd say overall, we see more halbs than grens, they're a bit more viable. The same goes for arsonists and landsknechts. That's because of the horrible animation and the HI tag of grens/arsonists, making them rather useless.
And on top of it, landsknechts at least have rather scary stats if they do connect, compared to halbs. While arsonists just have quite shitty stats really.
Arsonists are good against buildings
Yeah I guessed there was probably a link between my match and this thread haha
A post not made is a post given away

A slushie a day keeps the refill thread at bay

Jackson Pollock was the best poster to ever to post on these forums
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Canada dansil92
Lancer
Posts: 723
ESO: dansil92

14 Apr 2019, 23:06

Lil bombards vs aztec and no one else. Arsonists can be okay vs russia. Jat lancers are amazing units except they are 4 pop and not shippable in fortress. If they were shippable in fortress i think they would be used much more

Other than that i agree with almost everything said above. Stradiots are super good at tanking and snaring but also really good raiders, higher attack than most cav but still enough hp to tank a few tc shots

(I keep telling you guys to get rid of hi tag on grens and arsonists and they'll be just fine. If it doesnt counter cav then its not heavy infantry)

For anyone who likes numbers, landskenkts or however the what you spell it more or less match an imperial dutch halb in stats but with higher resist. Shame they move like their feet are weighted down and cost like a whole coin mine to make a batch
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Turkey Gafur
Skirmisher
Posts: 142
ESO: Gafur

15 Apr 2019, 00:33

Remove Hi tag from naders ? Well good luck going against 250hp %50 rr units then
mentally healthy
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7856
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

15 Apr 2019, 01:15

Yeah just removing it would make the unit kind of stupid I think. 400 ranged hp is really a lot, it's the same as a huss. That's fine when shooting with musks but with skirms it would be a pain, it's more than 25 shots to kill a gren. But still almost totally useless in other cases.
Imo the animation is the biggest problem, it just makes the unit unusable sometimes.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Tuvalu gibson
Gendarme
Posts: 9244
Location: USA

15 Apr 2019, 01:36

Arsonists are the worse no contest. I'd rather have any other age 3 merc
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Bolivia tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3423
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece

15 Apr 2019, 03:16

you obviously haven't played against nayuki's l'il bombard coast defense
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India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 297
ESO: rahuru

15 Apr 2019, 06:30

I always thought hackapells and stariouts (sorry was spelling mistakes but too lazy to check them) are same. Whats the difference between them. And their is one more unit like that right?
Australia Kawapasaka
Tournament Admin
Posts: 685
Location: Wales (new, south)

15 Apr 2019, 07:03

Shikari wrote:I always thought hackapells and stariouts (sorry was spelling mistakes but too lazy to check them) are same. Whats the difference between them. And their is one more unit like that right?


Hackapells are like an Uhlan on steroids, insanely high attack, but low HP. Stradiots are much more balanced in terms of atk/hp split like a hussar; much tankier. They have a lance looking weapon which is a bit misleading since they have no multipliers. Not sure what other unit you're thinking of but there's a few more merc hand cav units (Elmeti, Mameluke, Jat Lancer).
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Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 303
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

15 Apr 2019, 07:09

Why did u put Yojimbo on the weak spot? You never saw aizamk using them to kill cav and destroy light infantry using melee attack like cuirassiers? LOL the investment is huge but the hp, attack and speed is very good
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
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Bolivia tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3423
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece

15 Apr 2019, 07:15

Kawapasaka wrote:
Shikari wrote:I always thought hackapells and stariouts (sorry was spelling mistakes but too lazy to check them) are same. Whats the difference between them. And their is one more unit like that right?


Hackapells are like an Uhlan on steroids, insanely high attack, but low HP. Stradiots are much more balanced in terms of atk/hp split like a hussar; much tankier. They have a lance looking weapon which is a bit misleading since they have no multipliers. Not sure what other unit you're thinking of but there's a few more merc hand cav units (Elmeti, Mameluke, Jat Lancer).

iirc they have higher speed than hussars and can snare and kill goons easily.
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

15 Apr 2019, 09:58

Imperial Noob wrote:God tier:
1. Mamelukes
2. Jägers
3. Iron Troops
Good tier:
4. Manchu
5. Black Riders
6. Stradiots
7. Swiss Pikes
Ok:
8. Fusiliers
9. Highlanders
10. Hackapells
Weak:
11. Ronins
12. Elmeti
13. Ninjas
14. Arsonists
15. Yojimbos
Very weak:
16. L'il bombards
17. Jat Lancers
Broken useless:
18. Landsknechts

What do you guys think?
Should:
Yojimbo number 5 in a shipment instead of the 600 :coin: worthy 4?
The Elmeti transport be buffed to 8, since they are a fortress unit?
Jat lancers be moved to age 3 in the saloon?
L'il bombards and landsknechts get a +0.5 or a +1.0 speed buff?

P.S. Yeah, age 4 saloon mamelukes is just an abomination


Cost effectivity for melee cav:

Mameluke - 185
Stradiots - 187
Hackapell - 203
Elmeti - 128 //x3 vs inf
Jet lancers (normal mode) - 78 //x4 vs inf
Veteran hussar - 226

For me conclusion is mams are kinda good since they can tank a lot but i feel overrated since ive never felt they are so strong with Port. Only with otto. But definitaly viable.
For the others Hussars just much better.
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

15 Apr 2019, 10:20

Ri cost effectivity:

Jaeger - 69
Vet skirmisher - 65
// nice unit // *2 vs hi
Iron troop - 126 //*2 vs hi
Elite aenna - 207 //*2 vs hi
// just found it intresting :)
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Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 4061
ESO: edeholland
Location: the cloud
GameRanger ID: 4053888

15 Apr 2019, 10:30

@Dsy How did you make those calculations?
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

15 Apr 2019, 10:39

RC:

Manchu - 80 //x2,5 vs cav
Vet cav archer - 99 //x3 vs cav
// no comment
Black rider - 56 //*2 vs cav
vet goon - 67 //*3 vs cav
// however goon ranged resist included , br melee resist not
Yoyimbo - 42 //*2 vs cav //in ranged mode
war wagon - 57 //*3 vs cav // included for fun
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

15 Apr 2019, 10:49

Musket type:

Fusilier - 42
Highlander - 113
arsonist (with 56 damage calculated every shoot) - 56
vet musks - 141
// in ranged combat, in melee even much worse for mercs
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Norway jesus3
Howdah
Posts: 1587

15 Apr 2019, 11:01

Recently the Bleach Master rek'd me with maraths or sth (pls remind me what exactly you had trained there @Googol ), I didn't even know they existed. Apparentely they're musk-type, is that correct (I got confused since my Mace melted nevertheless)?
How do they perform overall?

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