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Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:08
by Dsy
Pike types:

Swiss - 143 /x5 vs cav
Ronin (calc with 116 dmg) - 235 //x3 vs cav
Landschneckt - 207 //*2 vs cav
Barbary corsair - 132 //*3 vs cav

vet halb - 178 //x2 vs cav
vet musk in melee - 196 //x3 vs cav
vet rodelero - 175 //x3,5 vs cav
vet doppel (48dmg) - 187 //x3 vs cav
vet pikeman - 88 //x5 vs cav

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:12
by edeholland
I don't think you can describe the cost efficiency in just one number. How do you calculate the advantage against a specific type of damage through resist and what do you do with the strategic advantage that speed gives or the difference between gunpowder units and archer units?

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:18
by Dsy
Damage resistance included in program, speed is comparing units with same speed, archer or gun usually matters in attack speed which also included (missing chance ignored however).

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:44
by deleted_user0
Dsy wrote:Damage resistance included in program, speed is comparing units with same speed, archer or gun usually matters in attack speed which also included (missing chance ignored however).


but not range and set up animation, which is one of the reasons why aenna aren't trained after age2, even though they indeed have insane stats, better stats than forest prowlers, which are the best skirmisher, while costing less.

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:45
by Kaiserklein
Dsy wrote:Ri cost effectivity:

Jaeger - 69
Vet skirmisher - 65
// nice unit // *2 vs hi
Iron troop - 126 //*2 vs hi
Elite aenna - 207 //*2 vs hi
// just found it intresting :)

Lol, aennas much better than iron troops? That's some huge bs right there

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 11:51
by Dsy
@deleted_user True, you need some knowledge to understand those numbers.

For me conclsuion:
1. Mamelukes - good tanks
2. Jägers - better than skirms a tiny bit so good
3. Iron Troops - good for china
4. Manchu - bad if you have cav archer
5. Black Riders - bad if you have goon
6. Stradiots - bad if you have huss
7. Swiss Pikes - good optional choice nice cav damage high speed
8. Fusiliers - bad
9. Highlanders - bad if you have musk
10. Hackapells - bad if you have huss
11. Ronins - ok, bit better vs cav than vet musks + faster however easy to snipe
12. Elmeti - bad
13. Ninjas - its a ninja
14. Arsonists - bad
15. Yojimbos - bad
16. L'il bombards - bad
17. Jat Lancers - bad
18. Landsknechts - bad

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:01
by deleted_user0
elmeti aren't bad (though only available in IV is a problem, but when you could get them on RE in age3, they were game winning), they're supposed to beat LI, in which case they're better than huss. Same for Jat Lancers, which you have to compare with sowar btw, or mahout, not huss.

your numbers basically confirm what people know anyway. The reason jaegers are good is because its 13 in a shipment, nobody really uses the 10 shipment if they have skirms. However, though they're only a bit better in stats, but when it comes to break points, they're quite a lot better.

In general, its not weird that cost effectively mercs aren't better. You should be looking at pop effectively, as well as powerspikes, resource availability and unit availability.

in general, the only civ that wants to make mercs is ger, and even that strat is situational. Other than that, other civs want to ship mercs only when it rounds out their composition, or when its a desperation play (aka, no more food but access to coin). In general, that's the only time you want to train mercs from saloons, when you have coin income, but no food income.

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:06
by Dsy
14 elite aenna vs 5 iron troop // same villsec

Result down. Idk whats so surprising actually.

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:19
by Googol
jesus3 wrote:Recently the Bleach Master rek'd me with maraths or sth (pls remind me what exactly you had trained there @Googol ), I didn't even know they existed. Apparentely they're musk-type, is that correct (I got confused since my Mace melted nevertheless)?
How do they perform overall?


Marthan dacoits i think, its an equivalent to pistoleros some sort of.

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:22
by HUMMAN
i think with micro iron troops should win. Lets take hypotical situation where 1 100 hp 10 damage unit and 2 50 hp 5 damage units, allthough total stats are same first unit wins easily.

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 13:01
by Imperial Noob
Of course with micro Iron Troops would win. Aenna have a peasant animation

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 13:17
by dansil92
jesus3 wrote:Recently the Bleach Master rek'd me with maraths or sth (pls remind me what exactly you had trained there @Googol ), I didn't even know they existed. Apparentely they're musk-type, is that correct (I got confused since my Mace melted nevertheless)?
How do they perform overall?


You are probably thinking marathon thuggee, which are a skirmisher on roids- similar to an abus gun im damage but with more damage to cav and much higher hp

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 13:38
by gibson
HUMMAN wrote:i think with micro iron troops should win. Lets take hypotical situation where 1 100 hp 10 damage unit and 2 50 hp 5 damage units, allthough total stats are same first unit wins easily.
micro doesn't matter they have like.75 resist lol

Re: Mercs from the most to least useful

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 14:18
by deleted_user0
gibson wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:i think with micro iron troops should win. Lets take hypotical situation where 1 100 hp 10 damage unit and 2 50 hp 5 damage units, allthough total stats are same first unit wins easily.
micro doesn't matter they have like.75 resist lol


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