[Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

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Canada vividlyplain
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by vividlyplain »

What do you think about a tourney where you only get to use a civ once for the entire tourney? So after you use Brits once, you cannot use them again. Obviously this would be for a relatively small/short tourney.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by lesllamas »

Put in a suggestion for a variable starting age (rng’d and players could pick civ and make a deck after knowing which age the game would start in). Obviously would not be classically competitive, but the point would be to test players’ strategic instincts and throw everyone into an equally unfamiliar environment.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:What do you think about a tourney where you only get to use a civ once for the entire tourney? So after you use Brits once, you cannot use them again. Obviously this would be for a relatively small/short tourney.

That would be extremly unfair.
It's already unfair to have a hard bracket, but if on top of that, you have to waste your best civs to get to the final stages, you might as well leave before the tournament starts.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by vividlyplain »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:What do you think about a tourney where you only get to use a civ once for the entire tourney? So after you use Brits once, you cannot use them again. Obviously this would be for a relatively small/short tourney.

That would be extremly unfair.
It's already unfair to have a hard bracket, but if on top of that, you have to waste your best civs to get to the final stages, you might as well leave before the tournament starts.



It's not unfair since the rule is the same for everyone. It would be interesting to see how players manage with civs they're unfamiliar with. Besides, if you don't like the tourney format you have the option not to play don't you?
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by Kawapasaka »

vividlyplain wrote:What do you think about a tourney where you only get to use a civ once for the entire tourney? So after you use Brits once, you cannot use them again. Obviously this would be for a relatively small/short tourney.


I think it wouldn't work so well for a different reason. The best players would use their worse civs to win their easiest match-ups, and then by the time they get to the final rounds they're just using their best civs anyway.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:What do you think about a tourney where you only get to use a civ once for the entire tourney? So after you use Brits once, you cannot use them again. Obviously this would be for a relatively small/short tourney.

That would be extremly unfair.
It's already unfair to have a hard bracket, but if on top of that, you have to waste your best civs to get to the final stages, you might as well leave before the tournament starts.



It's not unfair since the rule is the same for everyone.

I think you missed my point. It's not the same for everyone since you don't face the same opponent. Maybe it will make more sense if I make an example :

In semi finals :
A) Two pr40 get to play against each other. They will have to play their best civs if they want to win, so you can assume they will both use their best civs.

B) A pr40 plays against a pr25. He will use his worst civs and win.

Finals :
B will win because he will use his best civs while A will have to use his worst civs.

To be honest, in every tournament, there are some players who get fucked early on because they have to face strong opponents (like this tourney Mitoe,Hazza got a hard upper bracket while WickedCossack, kynesie or kaiser got an easy upper bracket). Your tourney system would just make it even more unfair.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by vividlyplain »

@[Armag] diarouga I agree that happens, but I think the double elimination bracket really helped out with that and I think that's important to have in major tournaments.
But isn't this more of a fun/casual tournament anyway? One of the voting options was double shipments so I didn't think it was to be taken as a really serious tournament. It's fun to see the top players play something different like what happens on some streams. Like when we convinced kaiser to play china last night :)
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:@[Armag] diarouga I agree that happens, but I think the double elimination bracket really helped out with that and I think that's important to have in major tournaments.
But isn't this more of a fun/casual tournament anyway? One of the voting options was double shipments so I didn't think it was to be taken as a really serious tournament. It's fun to see the top players play something different like what happens on some streams. Like when we convinced kaiser to play china last night :)

The double elimination bracket did help out indeed, but that's not the topic.

I'm sorry, but an "unfair" tournament doesn't really make sense to me. Isn't the goal of a tournament to find out who's the best ?
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

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Post by vividlyplain »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:@[Armag] diarouga I agree that happens, but I think the double elimination bracket really helped out with that and I think that's important to have in major tournaments.
But isn't this more of a fun/casual tournament anyway? One of the voting options was double shipments so I didn't think it was to be taken as a really serious tournament. It's fun to see the top players play something different like what happens on some streams. Like when we convinced kaiser to play china last night :)

The double elimination bracket did help out indeed, but that's not the topic.

I'm sorry, but an "unfair" tournament doesn't really make sense to me. Isn't the goal of a tournament to find out who's the best ?


Maybe I missed the point of this one. I thought this tourney was more for fun/entertainment purposes than who is the best. Isn't that what the NWC is for?
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

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Post by Kaiserklein »

We do have a huge lan tourney to find out who's the best... Can't we just have a fun weekend tourney next to it
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by lesllamas »

Tournaments are whatever you want them to be for. It’s really just a game, and people getting together to play in an organized fashion can have many purposes. The sense I got was that this one was just for some fun and unusual gameplay
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by Cometk »

Closed the poll. The format for the weekend tournament on June 23rd will be an Underused Cup. Tri-civ also got a nice response so we will have to have one of those in the near future. Thank you for the response everyone!
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by deleted_user »

lots of add-ins for smurf tourney :hmmm:
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

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Post by aligator92 »

Yeah pretty sad that this keeps getting ignored :(

Another interesting thing would be a tourny with heavy focus on water maps (Florida, Baja, Indonesia, NE, Wadmalow, Alaska, Manchuria). We would see some new builds, new players on top, non-Port games on water maps and would also gain some valuable insgiht into water balance. Kind of ironic that two of the better water players just rid themselves of the chance to compete.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by EAGLEMUT »

It's not even getting ignored, it's just too hard to do, so it will probably never be done.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:What about a hidden cup? Don't they do that for aoe2?

That's what was suggested.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to do that in aoe3.
First, you would need to make smurfs for all the players, and make sure they don't get caught (like if some players are spamming in the twitch chat during a game, you will know that they aren't playing).
Furthermore, players would need to use a VPN because else you can check their IP and know who they are (that's how kynesie got caught smurfing on Tit's account), so the games would be very laggy.

To be fair, even if it was possible to hide the IPs easily, it would be too easy to find out who's your opponent by checking who's online during the match.
Also, how would the scheduling work lol ?
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by Riotcoke »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:What about a hidden cup? Don't they do that for aoe2?

That's what was suggested.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to do that in aoe3.
First, you would need to make smurfs for all the players, and make sure they don't get caught (like if some players are spamming in the twitch chat during a game, you will know that they aren't playing).
Furthermore, players would need to use a VPN because else you can check their IP and know who they are (that's how kynesie got caught smurfing on Tit's account), so the games would be very laggy.

To be fair, even if it was possible to hide the IPs easily, it would be too easy to find out who's your opponent by checking who's online during the match.
Also, how would the scheduling work lol ?


Why would players IP check, like with such a small community surely people won't cheat like that? Also you use different usernames, so you can't see who it is.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Riotcoke wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:What about a hidden cup? Don't they do that for aoe2?

That's what was suggested.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to do that in aoe3.
First, you would need to make smurfs for all the players, and make sure they don't get caught (like if some players are spamming in the twitch chat during a game, you will know that they aren't playing).
Furthermore, players would need to use a VPN because else you can check their IP and know who they are (that's how kynesie got caught smurfing on Tit's account), so the games would be very laggy.

To be fair, even if it was possible to hide the IPs easily, it would be too easy to find out who's your opponent by checking who's online during the match.
Also, how would the scheduling work lol ?


Why would players IP check, like with such a small community surely people won't cheat like that?

They would because you can't know if they do.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by Cometk »

Riotcoke wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:What about a hidden cup? Don't they do that for aoe2?

That's what was suggested.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to do that in aoe3.
First, you would need to make smurfs for all the players, and make sure they don't get caught (like if some players are spamming in the twitch chat during a game, you will know that they aren't playing).
Furthermore, players would need to use a VPN because else you can check their IP and know who they are (that's how kynesie got caught smurfing on Tit's account), so the games would be very laggy.

To be fair, even if it was possible to hide the IPs easily, it would be too easy to find out who's your opponent by checking who's online during the match.
Also, how would the scheduling work lol ?


Why would players IP check, like with such a small community surely people won't cheat like that? Also you use different usernames, so you can't see who it is.

Viewers could IP check too. Unless the whole tournament is casted from recorded games.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by aligator92 »

Here was my idea:
Invite 16 players and assign each of them a number
Each player makes a GR account labeled player_number
You set up a schedule beforehand, as it is a weekend tournament everyone has to be available at the timeslots scheduled
I guess participants would have to stay out of the twitch chat (which is not too much to ask i think) or you actually record all games and cast them from replays which would also prevent the IP checking through viewers
Competitors would need to agree on not checking IP of course (which you can expect a bunch of grown ups to actually do?)
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by nimanoe »

The way it was done in AoE2 was that there was an admin (@robo ) who made smurf accounts, then shared the passwords with the players who were to play on the accounts. Then they send messages to robo with their availability and robo then set a time the match. The games were then played in secret (so no recorded games were available on the internet, only on the players pc's). The players send the recorded games to robo and then were later casted by the streamers. Only the semifinals and the finals were played live on a set time.
The players were able to check the ping, so they had an idea who they were playing, most players knew who they were playing after the first game.
However, I think a lot of the hype that happened with Hidden Cup 1 and 2 was that it was great as a spectator to guess who was playing, not necessarily that the players didn't know who they were playing.

So all in all, I think it's possible for AoE3 as well, but it requires a lot of admin time.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that the brackets were randomized as well, to avoid any spoilers.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

aligator92 wrote:Competitors would need to agree on not checking IP of course (which you can expect a bunch of grown ups to actually do?)

On GR you don't even need the IP checker lol. I'm sure that at least one guy out of four would cheat.
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Re: [Poll] Format for a weekend tournament on June 23rd

Post by aligator92 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
aligator92 wrote:Competitors would need to agree on not checking IP of course (which you can expect a bunch of grown ups to actually do?)

On GR you don't even need the IP checker lol. I'm sure that at least one guy out of four would cheat.

:sad:

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