Shipment System

No Flag Vladic24
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Shipment System

Post by Vladic24 »

I wonder if there would be any difference if everyone could use all cards and not have the 25 card limit (would the difference would be that huge that it will break the game or would it make the game better). I think that it would allow players to be more flexible. Lets say you start a strategy and then you notice that the enemy player is starting massing cavalry and you desperately need a lot of Spearmen, however you have only one card with sprearmen and it would not be enough to stop the enemy. If you could use all the cards then you would be able to get 1-2 more shipments of spearmen (which is highly unlikely that you will have 2 free shipments because you need a lot of ingame experience XD but still). Another example is that you fk up something and lost a lot of map control and cant hunt/mine. You could use then a shipment to make your farms/plantations better and have chance for a "comeback". I would like to know your opinion. I doubt anyone would even listen to what I said and will just call me noob but i think its a nice topic to think about.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Shipment System

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Post by Goodspeed »

Bonus: It invalidates the common and silly criticism that this game requires HC level grinding to win, and the (still silly but somewhat more valid) criticism that you have to lock into a certain strategy every game. These are both really popular criticisms among people who insist AoE3 is a bad game.

This was discussed before: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12366

Under "scrap the homecity mechanic" Interjection brings up that all cards should be unlocked from the start. You wouldn't need to get rid of decks then.
On page 3 of that thread I suggest to also get rid of decks.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Shipment System

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

It would definitely be better.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Kawapasaka »

Would require some major balance tweaking, surely? Long-term for instance France has an abundance of amazing cards, Otto has very little in comparison.
That said, I would like to see Germantown Farmers used once in a real game, most OP boom ever :chinese:
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Dolan »

Making decks much bigger would be enough, imo. Having access to all the cards from the tech tree would make picking a card during the game take much longer, potentially distracting you from managing your game for too long.

I would be in favour of making decks include as many as 44 cards (11 cards per row), which would be more than enough to allow much greater flexibility in terms of tactical adaptation, while still keeping things practicable. Additionally, decks should also have a row and cards for imperial, it makes no sense why age V has no cards. It's yet another reason why some people complain that age V doesn't really have much in the way of innovative game design.

You don't even need access to all the cards, most cards are pretty bad or non-viable in competitive builds. You just need access to the essential ones that could prove useful, given the right context. So about 40-50 cards per deck would be enough.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kawapasaka wrote:Would require some major balance tweaking, surely?

Not in supremacy.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote:Making decks much bigger would be enough, imo. Having access to all the cards from the tech tree would make picking a card during the game take much longer, potentially distracting you from managing your game for too long.
My thought was that you would still have decks but they would work only as a "shortcut" to quickly pick cards. You would still have access to all of them. Maybe the UI would work the same as when you're building a deck, except there's an extra category (besides discovery age, colonial age etc) called "favorites".
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Dolan »

So that would be like the LoL shop.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Goodspeed »

Yeah
No Flag Vladic24
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Vladic24 »

Goodspeed wrote:
Dolan wrote:Making decks much bigger would be enough, imo. Having access to all the cards from the tech tree would make picking a card during the game take much longer, potentially distracting you from managing your game for too long.
My thought was that you would still have decks but they would work only as a "shortcut" to quickly pick cards. You would still have access to all of them. Maybe the GUI would work the same as when you're building a deck, except there's an extra category (besides discovery age, colonial age etc) called "favorites".


I like the idea of decks being "Shortcuts"

I'm surprised to see so many people agree with me :O
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Riotcoke »

I like the idea of unlocked decks like this, however I feel like having this would create a greater amount of swing in games. I.e Games become far less decisive in who's actually winning as cards that aren't normally in decks can be extremely powerful in some circumstances
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Kawapasaka »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:Would require some major balance tweaking, surely?

Not in supremacy.


I guess it depends on how you perceive balance - should all civs have roughly the same ability to continue holding up in the late-game? Because I feel like this change would exacerbate the current differences and give euro civs even more incentive to drag the game on forever vs warchief civs.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Hazza54321 »

I think it plays out fine as it is
No Flag Vladic24
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Vladic24 »

Hazza54321 wrote:I think it plays out fine as it is


It could be better. Better rushes, better turtles, better booms, interchangeable builds.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by kami_ryu »

It's not a bad idea on paper, but is it really necessary? I mean, a lot of work was already done and takes AoE3 in a different direction than what was intended by the devs. I don't know how useful it would be to take a big step in this direction.

25 card decks over 20 card decks was already a compromise in this direction. It'd be a lot of work to make everything unlocked but 25 card decks already means that you get most of the core shipments you want anyway.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by helln00 »

If we are going to remove the deck system then i think a possible solution to sort of preserve the old system abit would be to have it as a sort of soft cap.

Meaning that instead of having 25 cards in a deck and choosing the deck at the start, you have access to all of your cards from the start of the game

But you can only send 25 unique cards in the entire game so every decision you make still locks you in later, but still giving you flexibility as you play. also this way when you reach Imp, you only get to send the cards that you already have sent again.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Mitoe »

It’s a good idea that’s been discussed before. It would definitely require a fair bit of rebalancing. Certain civs would need to receive a few extra eco cards, one or two civs may even need a couple of eco cards removed or adjusted.

Then there’s military upgrades. British for example doesn’t normally include both musketeer and both hussar upgrades in Colonial, for example, unless they cut a unit or crate shipment. However things like the option to go for the grenadier siege card in certain situations would be a nice result of removing decks.

Not to mention water. At the moment heavy water decks have to make sacrifices like less military shipments, eco cards for fishing rather than land, etc etc. Remove the decks and suddenly water is pretty much unbeatable lategame, and it’s already reasonably strong lategame.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:It’s a good idea that’s been discussed before. It would definitely require a fair bit of rebalancing. Certain civs would need to receive a few extra eco cards, one or two civs may even need a couple of eco cards removed or adjusted.

Then there’s military upgrades. British for example doesn’t normally include both musketeer and both hussar upgrades in Colonial, for example, unless they cut a unit or crate shipment. However things like the option to go for the grenadier siege card in certain situations would be a nice result of removing decks.

Not to mention water. At the moment heavy water decks have to make sacrifices like less military shipments, eco cards for fishing rather than land, etc etc. Remove the decks and suddenly water is pretty much unbeatable lategame, and it’s already reasonably strong lategame.

Yes, but on the other hand you usually don't have all the water cards in a "standard" deck, which means that when you're playing vs kynesie, you have a disadvantage if you try to fight him on water because you have less water shipments. That's a bit unfair.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by lesllamas »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote:It’s a good idea that’s been discussed before. It would definitely require a fair bit of rebalancing. Certain civs would need to receive a few extra eco cards, one or two civs may even need a couple of eco cards removed or adjusted.

Then there’s military upgrades. British for example doesn’t normally include both musketeer and both hussar upgrades in Colonial, for example, unless they cut a unit or crate shipment. However things like the option to go for the grenadier siege card in certain situations would be a nice result of removing decks.

Not to mention water. At the moment heavy water decks have to make sacrifices like less military shipments, eco cards for fishing rather than land, etc etc. Remove the decks and suddenly water is pretty much unbeatable lategame, and it’s already reasonably strong lategame.

Yes, but on the other hand you usually don't have all the water cards in a "standard" deck, which means that when you're playing vs kynesie, you have a disadvantage if you try to fight him on water because you have less water shipments. That's a bit unfair.


Not sure I follow--what's unfair about this?
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Mitoe »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote:It’s a good idea that’s been discussed before. It would definitely require a fair bit of rebalancing. Certain civs would need to receive a few extra eco cards, one or two civs may even need a couple of eco cards removed or adjusted.

Then there’s military upgrades. British for example doesn’t normally include both musketeer and both hussar upgrades in Colonial, for example, unless they cut a unit or crate shipment. However things like the option to go for the grenadier siege card in certain situations would be a nice result of removing decks.

Not to mention water. At the moment heavy water decks have to make sacrifices like less military shipments, eco cards for fishing rather than land, etc etc. Remove the decks and suddenly water is pretty much unbeatable lategame, and it’s already reasonably strong lategame.

Yes, but on the other hand you usually don't have all the water cards in a "standard" deck, which means that when you're playing vs kynesie, you have a disadvantage if you try to fight him on water because you have less water shipments. That's a bit unfair.

Yup but that's still a tradeoff you have to make with the deck system. Removing decks wouldn't really solve the problem of having less water shipments--then it just becomes a case of whether or not your civ has the right water shipments.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Dsy »

For me its strange to change the whole game when minor changes like no rng crates and buffing 100% useless units dont happen.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Kawapasaka »

Dsy wrote: buffing 100% useless units dont happen.


This is a good point. I don't even know what a Tashunke prowler looks like.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Not a fan of this, even Dolan's suggestion seems quite radical, but perhaps a couple more card slots would be fine.
What I'd rather like to see is the removal of the whole creating/deleting homecities mechanic and just have a persistent city for each civ in the game at all times, while improving deck management (tag/filter decks, copy decks from other players easily..). Then implement random civ selection ability, since there will be no more issues with it. Buffing some useless stuff is something I can get behind as well.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by HUMMAN »

Well i like the idea of having deck that you prepeare, its personal. I would like it to be hidden from enemy, enemy scouting your deck without an invesment forces you to select safe decks.
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Re: Shipment System

Post by Vladic24 »

Kawapasaka wrote:
Dsy wrote: buffing 100% useless units dont happen.


This is a good point. I don't even know what a Tashunke prowler looks like.


What is a Tashunke Prowler? XD

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