Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

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Italy Garja
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Garja »

here we go :grin:
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Sargsyan »

99 vills are 495 food considering the 5 food difference, really atop nitpicking. You could make up for that difference by simply taking 2 food treasures early on when you have 40 vills eco, also lets not forget cassas are cheaper unit, seems like people forgot about that
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by dansil92 »

I always found the port design was glass cannon super specialized units with long range. Cassadores are brutal against their specific units they counter, namely musks and other HI. The higher resist is to sucj an extent that brit musks wont just beat them when in range and thats not true of normal skirms. They're a bit quicker too so thats less likely to happen. And they dont suck your coin mines dry in minutes either.
They have super goons with long range. Very powerful probably too op.( I'd be interested to see Genitours granting an extra multi vs cav as compensation for the nerf, as it would fall under the civ design of specialist units)
Organ guns are not meant to fight other arty or even buildings tbh. They are purely anti infantry. These are seemingly intended to beat other skirms. A buff to organ guns would be more hp, as they are pretty easy to snipe down with literally any ranged unit.
To take out buildings they have those stupid range mortars.
Ports always were intended to be an age IV civ it is pretty obvious from looking at a port treaty deck or whatever that all their good cards are in IV. Look how many unit shipments they even get... 5 organ guns 3 horse arty 2 heavies...

And even beyond that they have musks that are equal to brits they just happen much later in the game... industrial age.

The reason they suck on ep is that there is never enough safe resources to get to IV on land maps so they just sputter and die halfway through fortress
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Garja »

deleted_user wrote:
Garja wrote:Isn't it 85f now? lol. I used to do the same exact thing even with FP Ports.
Really stop nitpicking on unsignificant stuff. Fact it Ports can totally compete with those civs. And if opponent makes couple mistakes like Kaiser did in that game, it is very easy to win.

1st, if the difference between 80f and 85f is that much irrelevant why would you revert it to 85f? just for 5food? your last sentence explains enough, you hope for enemy to make mistakes so you can win a game as ports.

Is this propaganda talk or are we discussing lime two intelligents individuals?
It wasnt me making an insignificant revert of 5f :ugly: . I think vill cost should be reverted entirely for multiple reasons.
My last sentence means what it means. Port compete with ither similar civs and actually win fairly easy as soon as opponent makes mistakes.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Kaiserklein »

Sargsyan wrote:99 vills are 495 food considering the 5 food difference, really atop nitpicking. You could make up for that difference by simply taking 2 food treasures early on when you have 40 vills eco, also lets not forget cassas are cheaper unit, seems like people forgot about that

Cassadores are a bit cheaper because they're more food heavy, but I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is since as ports you usually struggle to control hunts.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Sargsyan »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Sargsyan wrote:99 vills are 495 food considering the 5 food difference, really atop nitpicking. You could make up for that difference by simply taking 2 food treasures early on when you have 40 vills eco, also lets not forget cassas are cheaper unit, seems like people forgot about that

Cassadores are a bit cheaper because they're more food heavy, but I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is since as ports you usually struggle to control hunts.

true that, but in age 3 you have more map control and that shouldn't be a problem usually. but then again i still think port needs a buff.
maybe infantry upgrades moving to age3 would be a good idea.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Garja »

Yes, I already proposed to change the resource ratio and remove like 5-10f on top of that.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Sargsyan »

changing resource ratio sounds like a good idea, but removing 5-10f on top of that is kinda too much, although 5 f might be ok dunno
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by deleted_user »

Garja wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Garja wrote:Isn't it 85f now? lol. I used to do the same exact thing even with FP Ports.
Really stop nitpicking on unsignificant stuff. Fact it Ports can totally compete with those civs. And if opponent makes couple mistakes like Kaiser did in that game, it is very easy to win.

1st, if the difference between 80f and 85f is that much irrelevant why would you revert it to 85f? just for 5food? your last sentence explains enough, you hope for enemy to make mistakes so you can win a game as ports.

Is this propaganda talk or are we discussing lime two intelligents individuals?

No ?

Sargsyan wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Sargsyan wrote:99 vills are 495 food considering the 5 food difference, really atop nitpicking. You could make up for that difference by simply taking 2 food treasures early on when you have 40 vills eco, also lets not forget cassas are cheaper unit, seems like people forgot about that

Cassadores are a bit cheaper because they're more food heavy, but I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is since as ports you usually struggle to control hunts.

true that, but in age 3 you have more map control and that shouldn't be a problem usually. but then again i still think port needs a buff.
maybe infantry upgrades moving to age3 would be a good idea.

then you wouldn't have space to put them in your deck, I think nilla cassadores and reverting the food change to add some food gathering bonus ( such as dutch vills gather coin faster than other civs ) would be helpful.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by _H2O »

I preferred EP ports. The maps and the food reduction makes their desperation timings different and they are really good on high tp maps.

I also find that their early to mid colonial timing with 8 bows is pretty interesting. I have games out there beating both Russia and Spain in late tournament rounds with those kinds of builds. People don’t typically use bows properly because they require precise timing and smaller numbers to work out well.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Kaiserklein »

princeofcarthage wrote:
duckzilla wrote:60% range resist would mean to reduce all ranged dmg by a further 20% effectively. That's quite a lot.

To me, the unit design for portuguese is glass cannons. Do a lot of dmg, but also break easily (cassa/organ). Further increased ranged resistance would not necessarily fit in here. If you want to improve cassadores, you could just as good increase base dmg by 1.

Or add 20% veteran upgrades which they miss

They do have them, they're just included in their base stats. Which is better because every upgrade will scale on these fortress stats and thus is 20% stronger.
It's the same for cuirs, wws, lancers and so on.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by duckzilla »

deleted_user wrote:
Garja wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Is this propaganda talk or are we discussing lime two intelligents individuals?

No ?

I smell Dontay and can only repeat:
stop nitpicking on unsignificant stuff.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by princeofcarthage »

Kaiserklein wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
duckzilla wrote:60% range resist would mean to reduce all ranged dmg by a further 20% effectively. That's quite a lot.

To me, the unit design for portuguese is glass cannons. Do a lot of dmg, but also break easily (cassa/organ). Further increased ranged resistance would not necessarily fit in here. If you want to improve cassadores, you could just as good increase base dmg by 1.

Or add 20% veteran upgrades which they miss

They do have them, they're just included in their base stats. Which is better because every upgrade will scale on these fortress stats and thus is 20% stronger.
It's the same for cuirs, wws, lancers and so on.

Its debatable. (Talking about RE) There are team cards which enable certain age 3 units in age 2 specifically skirmisher type and goon type. However some units like WW are not affected by it. There is NO way on official patch where units like WW, Lancers, Cuirs can be trained in age 2 and hence do not carry age 2 stats. However units like skirm, ruyter, goon which are trainable in age 2, all have age 2 stats. The only inconsistency is with cacadore that it does not get shadow veteran ups like these units. To be honest the code actually exists for veteran cacadore like every other unit which gets the ups, it isn't just activated like other. (Maybe devs forgot it?)
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by deleted_user »

duckzilla wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Show hidden quotes

No ?

I smell Dontay and can only repeat:
stop nitpicking on unsignificant stuff.

I'm not nitpicking lol, just 2 page ago I've proved to you that most your thoughts are wrong. So do Garja's ones aswell, expect KaiserKlein, noone could bring reasonable evidence. And I just wanted to Show Garja isnt even compatible with what he says. Garja says ep ports are better while he says there is no way to come back to RE ports it was too op (like what?) Does it even make a sense? And Garja is Posting a video from ep1 or ep2 times where vill cost was 80f and he took 4tps :D probably genituors werent nerfed yet too, then he is talking about how he beat KaiserKlein when he was colonel I guess?
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by lordraphael »

Garja wrote:I think we need to address some things because the level of accuracy in this thread seems terrible, especially in the last couple pages.
1) Cassas are actually fine already. Buffing them would be to incentivate Port use and not because they absolutely need it. Cassas already have high rr on TAD and 4.5 speed. They do better than regular skirms vs ashi for example, and they do fine vs skirms wars because they're a cheaper skirm. This is why I'm happy to just have skirm goon wars as Ports, just keep trading while my eco grows 3x the opponent's one.
2) Organs are bad in art vs art, yes we all know that. They are however much better against infantry. It's a cool unit that cost less than falcs. There is room to buff them but please stop comparing them to falcs in scope as they're just two different units.

Now, everyone seems to want Nilla cassas. Fine. Get your super low HP skirm with 4.5 rof and +10% rr and then gl not complaining it sux even more. Idk even why you think Nilla cassas are better when they're not. Do you think the switch to new cassas was a buff or a nerf?

Organ guns: what buffs do you propose?

All these changes ofc are to compensate a vill discount nerf. Current vill cost is just absurdely unbalanced as it makes for stupid scaling dynamics (e.g switching to mills np at 15 min in the game with 70v eco and without moving from your starting 3TC area).

haha yea you cant really compare organs and falcs, and im pretty sure nilla cassa are not better than EP ones. However they are definetly more unique.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by deleted_user0 »

I'd give them 3 rabaulds honestly. It's tempting to skip porto fortress. Its quite bad and 1200 res card is nothing new (3 caras). 2 Rabaulds is bad anyway. And mames are nerfed.

Also, age 4 they have 5 rabaulds so it makes sense.
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Post by Jaeger »

_H2O wrote:I preferred EP ports. The maps and the food reduction makes their desperation timings different and they are really good on high tp maps.

I also find that their early to mid colonial timing with 8 bows is pretty interesting. I have games out there beating both Russia and Spain in late tournament rounds with those kinds of builds. People don’t typically use bows properly because they require precise timing and smaller numbers to work out well.

What do you think about nilla cassadores?
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Kaiserklein »

princeofcarthage wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Show hidden quotes

They do have them, they're just included in their base stats. Which is better because every upgrade will scale on these fortress stats and thus is 20% stronger.
It's the same for cuirs, wws, lancers and so on.

Its debatable. (Talking about RE) There are team cards which enable certain age 3 units in age 2 specifically skirmisher type and goon type. However some units like WW are not affected by it. There is NO way on official patch where units like WW, Lancers, Cuirs can be trained in age 2 and hence do not carry age 2 stats. However units like skirm, ruyter, goon which are trainable in age 2, all have age 2 stats. The only inconsistency is with cacadore that it does not get shadow veteran ups like these units. To be honest the code actually exists for veteran cacadore like every other unit which gets the ups, it isn't just activated like other. (Maybe devs forgot it?)

Well cassadores can be trained in colo if your french mate ships early skirms. And then they're called "veteran cassadores" and have age 3 stats. So again, having vet tech included in base stats is an advantage.
There is literally no way cassadores are lacking 20% hp and attack. They trade even with veteran skirms, so nah, they're veteran too. If you'd give them an extra 20% hp and attack, they would be by far the best skirmisher unit in the game. While now they're just slightly worse than regular veteran skirms.
It's just a big mess from the devs to mix regarding vet ups.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by princeofcarthage »

Kaiserklein wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Its debatable. (Talking about RE) There are team cards which enable certain age 3 units in age 2 specifically skirmisher type and goon type. However some units like WW are not affected by it. There is NO way on official patch where units like WW, Lancers, Cuirs can be trained in age 2 and hence do not carry age 2 stats. However units like skirm, ruyter, goon which are trainable in age 2, all have age 2 stats. The only inconsistency is with cacadore that it does not get shadow veteran ups like these units. To be honest the code actually exists for veteran cacadore like every other unit which gets the ups, it isn't just activated like other. (Maybe devs forgot it?)

Well cassadores can be trained in colo if your french mate ships early skirms. And then they're called "veteran cassadores" and have age 3 stats. So again, having vet tech included in base stats is an advantage.
There is literally no way cassadores are lacking 20% hp and attack. They trade even with veteran skirms, so nah, they're veteran too. If you'd give them an extra 20% hp and attack, they would be by far the best skirmisher unit in the game. While now they're just slightly worse than regular veteran skirms.
It's just a big mess from the devs to mix regarding vet ups.

They shouldn't be trading equal with veteran skirms though, they are low hp high attack unit so they should ideally do better vs inf than skirm and worse vs handcav than skirm, if they are equal with skirm in ranged fights but worse than them in rest how does that make a fair unit? They definitely lack veteran ups
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by deleted_user »

princeofcarthage wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Well cassadores can be trained in colo if your french mate ships early skirms. And then they're called "veteran cassadores" and have age 3 stats. So again, having vet tech included in base stats is an advantage.
There is literally no way cassadores are lacking 20% hp and attack. They trade even with veteran skirms, so nah, they're veteran too. If you'd give them an extra 20% hp and attack, they would be by far the best skirmisher unit in the game. While now they're just slightly worse than regular veteran skirms.
It's just a big mess from the devs to mix regarding vet ups.

They shouldn't be trading equal with veteran skirms though, they are low hp high attack unit so they should ideally do better vs inf than skirm and worse vs handcav than skirm, if they are equal with skirm in ranged fights but worse than them in rest how does that make a fair unit? They definitely lack veteran ups

That's the issue, it's true they do equal in skirm vs skirm fights without upgrades but still, in the rest they are just worse than skirmishers at anything thats what Garja can't see ;)
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Garja »

They are cheaper skirms omfg they're supposed to be worse but they barely are?
I mean, get at least your facts straight if jumping into the discussion.
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by charlemango »

deleted_user wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
Show hidden quotes

They shouldn't be trading equal with veteran skirms though, they are low hp high attack unit so they should ideally do better vs inf than skirm and worse vs handcav than skirm, if they are equal with skirm in ranged fights but worse than them in rest how does that make a fair unit? They definitely lack veteran ups

That's the issue, it's true they do equal in skirm vs skirm fights without upgrades but still, in the rest they are just worse than skirmishers at anything thats what Garja can't see ;)


Obviously Port skirms are supposed to be worse by design. Why would a civ have the best goons AND the best skirms?
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by deleted_user »

charlemango wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Show hidden quotes

That's the issue, it's true they do equal in skirm vs skirm fights without upgrades but still, in the rest they are just worse than skirmishers at anything thats what Garja can't see ;)


Obviously Port skirms are supposed to be worse by design. Why would a civ have the best goons AND the best skirms?

Best goons lol, goons are defenitely not unique anymore atleast for ports
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Kaiserklein »

princeofcarthage wrote:They shouldn't be trading equal with veteran skirms though, they are low hp high attack unit so they should ideally do better vs inf than skirm and worse vs handcav than skirm, if they are equal with skirm in ranged fights but worse than them in rest how does that make a fair unit? They definitely lack veteran ups

Yes they should trade slightly better against other skirms, which is why we want to buff them.
But they do NOT lack vet upgrades. Do you realize how huge a 20% hp and attack buff is?? It's like, even better than turning musks into sepoy, while keeping the cost lol.
It would be as stupid as giving WWs an extra 20% hp and attack on their vet stats because "they don't have a veteran upgrade" and they underperform... And germany would go full WW every game
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Re: Portuguese buff (?!) Please read

Post by Sargsyan »

deleted_user wrote:
charlemango wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Obviously Port skirms are supposed to be worse by design. Why would a civ have the best goons AND the best skirms?

Best goons lol, goons are defenitely not unique anymore atleast for ports

lol
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