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France Kaiserklein
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03 Jun 2019, 16:43

Garja wrote:They are cheaper skirms omfg they're supposed to be worse but they barely are?
I mean, get at least your facts straight if jumping into the discussion.

I just tried though, and actually a vet skirm needs one less shot to kill a vet cassa. You gotta admit it's really too shitty, I mean cassas don't even trade even with skirms, and they do way worse against cav or artillery. Even if they're slightly cheaper (which again is barely an advantage when you struggle to get hunts) it's exaggerated...
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Italy Garja
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03 Jun 2019, 18:16

Idk buff them lol. To me 1 less shot vs skirms is fine.
Thing is Ports used to als have besteiros which is useless tech now.
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No Flag ovi12
Jaeger
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03 Jun 2019, 18:34

Just a wild idea here but maybe the church card should have a tech that gives like 8 besteiros for free and allows u to train besteiros
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Serbia breeze
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03 Jun 2019, 18:40

Garja wrote:Idk buff them lol. To me 1 less shot vs skirms is fine.
Thing is Ports used to als have besteiros which is useless tech now.

in nilla the tech costs 2k wood and bows would kill cav while on tad it's 2.4k wood and hussars kill them easily so it's not a worth investment at all
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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Italy Garja
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03 Jun 2019, 18:44

ovi12 wrote:Just a wild idea here but maybe the church card should have a tech that gives like 8 besteiros for free and allows u to train besteiros

Church techs that provide units all have a cost. But 2.4k is just unaffordable. 1k wood for like 10 besteiros + the up would be cool.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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03 Jun 2019, 19:02

Stop overpowering mookie
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

please stop eating :food:
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Italy Garja
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03 Jun 2019, 19:22

To be fair even like 16 guard xbows without the ability of training them would be nice.
The fact that nilla had this distinction between archaic units and advanced units is problematic. TWC and TAD archaic units have guard up by default without cards.
Germany duckzilla
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03 Jun 2019, 20:32

I thought the Besteiro tech changes your standard xbow into Besteiros (also newly build ones)?! No need to make them "trainable" then, since it is the very xbow you build in the barracks anyway?
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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Serbia breeze
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03 Jun 2019, 20:50

besteiro tech basicly upgrades bows to guard status, but still it's quite bad for it's price and bows are quite weak against cav so
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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Italy Garja
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03 Jun 2019, 20:54

Just as reference xbows are less weak to cav than skirms are.
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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03 Jun 2019, 20:59

Kaiserklein wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:They shouldn't be trading equal with veteran skirms though, they are low hp high attack unit so they should ideally do better vs inf than skirm and worse vs handcav than skirm, if they are equal with skirm in ranged fights but worse than them in rest how does that make a fair unit? They definitely lack veteran ups

Yes they should trade slightly better against other skirms, which is why we want to buff them.
But they do NOT lack vet upgrades. Do you realize how huge a 20% hp and attack buff is?? It's like, even better than turning musks into sepoy, while keeping the cost lol.
It would be as stupid as giving WWs an extra 20% hp and attack on their vet stats because "they don't have a veteran upgrade" and they underperform... And germany would go full WW every game

I never ever suggested give ww a veteran up lol, just that coding on caca part is inconsistent, and the tech actually exists just isn't activated (which may/may not be an oversight on dev part)
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France Kaiserklein
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04 Jun 2019, 03:41

Garja wrote:Just as reference xbows are less weak to cav than skirms are.

They dps more but they have less range and a worse animation, which makes it harder to kite, so not sure.

princeofcarthage wrote:I never ever suggested give ww a veteran up lol, just that coding on caca part is inconsistent, and the tech actually exists just isn't activated (which may/may not be an oversight on dev part)

It was just a comparison to show that buffing cassas by another 20% stats would makes them absurdely op.
Anyway, regardless of the code, cassas are effectively vet, and giving them a second vet is way too much
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No Flag helln00
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04 Jun 2019, 04:55

If you were to implement the veteran upgrade on casa but keep their fortress stat the same, wouldn't that make them scale less cause the upgrades are based on the base stat of the unit?
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Serbia breeze
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04 Jun 2019, 06:23

Garja wrote:Just as reference xbows are less weak to cav than skirms are.

Just wanted to make it clear because besteiros are way too good in nilla than in tad. Actually it was probably op because you would spam them from 4x barracks and kill even cavs while enemy will get hard time dealing with it
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
Germany duckzilla
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04 Jun 2019, 08:26

breeze wrote:
Garja wrote:Just as reference xbows are less weak to cav than skirms are.

Just wanted to make it clear because besteiros are way too good in nilla than in tad. Actually it was probably op because you would spam them from 4x barracks and kill even cavs while enemy will get hard time dealing with it

Only one way to kill them: organ guns.
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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Serbia breeze
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04 Jun 2019, 08:28

duckzilla wrote:
breeze wrote:
Garja wrote:Just as reference xbows are less weak to cav than skirms are.

Just wanted to make it clear because besteiros are way too good in nilla than in tad. Actually it was probably op because you would spam them from 4x barracks and kill even cavs while enemy will get hard time dealing with it

Only one way to kill them: organ guns.

it doesn't really matter. bows are quite cost effective so you can just rightclick to organ guns especially when its besteiro
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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New Zealand zoom
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06 Jun 2019, 19:46

breeze wrote:
Interjection wrote:Haven't read this thread yet, but am looking forward to when I get time.

I'd like to see porto get 60% range resist Casa. The current versions are just worse skirmishers in almost every way :(

But a 60% one would give it a nice role as a more 'intense' skirm

That would be solution too, we defenitely need to make ports playable civ again. I think everyone expect garja is agree that porto defenitely need to be rebalanced. @zoom please hear us
Hai!

Although hardly immediately, I eventually read through all of the civilization threads (and almost all others, too) in the EP board of ESOC. While tagging me will do, it's best, for all purposes, that you post threads about EP there, staying on topic. Perhaps a moderator would move this thread.

I am not a fan of cheaper Settlers, personally, but the other changes you mention are good, at least in terms of effect. Depending, entirely, on feedback I have yet to collect and organize, the Portuguese could be rebalanced for the next balance update. At the moment, I do not know what changes, exactly, will be made to the civilization. With that said, it is likely that it will see some changes – along with most every other civilization – on the grand quest to improve general viability. Expect more on that during the summer.
Currently effective ESOC Patch notes

Some players: "190w is such an awkward and ugly cost for Villages; not at all like 135w for Manor Houses! Oh, and make Musketeer batches cost 281.25f, 93.75c again!

Blue-haired girl dying
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Serbia breeze
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06 Jun 2019, 20:00

zoom wrote:
breeze wrote:
Interjection wrote:Haven't read this thread yet, but am looking forward to when I get time.

I'd like to see porto get 60% range resist Casa. The current versions are just worse skirmishers in almost every way :(

But a 60% one would give it a nice role as a more 'intense' skirm

That would be solution too, we defenitely need to make ports playable civ again. I think everyone expect garja is agree that porto defenitely need to be rebalanced. @zoom please hear us
Hai!

Although hardly immediately, I eventually read through all of the civilization threads (and almost all others, too) in the EP board of ESOC. While tagging me will do, it's best, for all purposes, that you post threads about EP there, staying on topic. Perhaps a moderator would move this thread.

I am not a fan of cheaper Settlers, personally, but the other changes you mention are good, at least in terms of effect. Depending, entirely, on feedback I have yet to collect and organize, the Portuguese could be rebalanced for the next balance update. At the moment, I do not know what changes, exactly, will be made to the civilization. With that said, it is likely that it will see some changes – along with most every other civilization – on the grand quest to improve general viability. Expect more on that during the summer.

i know its not really possible to balance it before Weekend tours and NWC are done, reverting villager cost is an option but it would be a disadvantage without bringing some buff to porto unit compositions because right now you cant take good trades with goon cassador at all, goons die easily and cassadors arent effective against anything at all without 4 upgrades. I think reverting -100f crate and villager cost to 95food would be ok, since goons are slightly nerfed, ports should be rewarded a bit from economic aspect imo, or you can just add some food gather rate bonus to porto vills such as dutch vills have on coin, also i want to let you know we played a lot of games with @Garja today and he finally started to agree that ports need buff :grin:
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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Serbia breeze
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06 Jun 2019, 21:30

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buff ports please
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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Italy Garja
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06 Jun 2019, 21:37

zzz
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India gh0st
Lancer
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Location: India

06 Jun 2019, 22:28

4/8 games won under 4 mins. Utmost domination, must buff ports.
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Serbia breeze
Howdah
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07 Jun 2019, 09:49

yea
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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No Flag Aizamk
Howdah
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1050
Location: ded

07 Jun 2019, 10:29

breeze wrote:yea

come fite my ports later, you're a whole 100 elo higher than me so if I win it means ports don't need buff
saving for my flight in 2020
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Switzerland sebnan12
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07 Jun 2019, 17:27

how about the civ gets the 100 food back, all other nerfs i do like honestly. leave the vills cheap and dont let them get free third and 4th tc?
"Why are you trying to lecture me on my own language, no wonder you people shit in the open street."- Riotcoke

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Serbia breeze
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07 Jun 2019, 17:33

sebnan12 wrote:how about the civ gets the 100 food back, all other nerfs i do like honestly. leave the vills cheap and dont let them get free third and 4th tc?

100f back is required because basicly unlike other civs, as porto you need to have perfect macro to make market or tp in age1 also btw you can never age up with 13vills when you make market or tp which limits you on 14v age up strats
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.

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