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Serbia breeze
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02 Jun 2019, 05:24

Hazza54321 wrote:
breeze wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:RE ports had some proper broken shit (30rr goons, plus skirms on horse in age 4 and 5 mams) however it was getting to that point thats the problem, still dont get why people calculate the vill discount by sheer maths so one dimensional. Its so many little things that add up e.g. easier to get bigger batches of hu=0&map=&lenf=&lent=&ft=1

And where did i say they were good, i just think theyre bss early, queing vills faster to snowball res and depleting res slower which most of you dont seem to understand

You are thinking so one dimensional, just checked your and some other players's tournament history from NWC, ports are almost never picked on land maps it's a civ where people pick it on water maps or just for mirrors it explains fair enough I guess, Also you never played ports lol, if you really believe they are good, why you never picked them?

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... =6&ocetter on ep but still weak if you cared to read
Hey hazza unfortunately answer is NO, there is no way you can proof ports are better than what they were on RE, Garja says EP ports are better while he is shy to bring back RE ports which says enough I think.
About ports right now they are actually losing the Mu's where they should do ok, so they are defenitely not buffed lol

The elo link you posted is irrelevant btw, you post link of 10 games and generalize ports's situation that they are better right, For example I just checked my own elo page http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1 and I have %67 win rate as russia, unlike you I really played the civ but still, I wouldn't talk that confident about russia balance lol. It's amazing that once you play the civ 10 times out 5k games. everyone is free to make a conclusion while Kynesie, Knusch Possibly Jerppa prefers RE ports over EP one.
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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Serbia breeze
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02 Jun 2019, 05:27

Garja wrote:So, let me understand, are you confident that reverting vill cost and starting crate for genitours +2 range would make you win more with Ports?

You are trimming my sentences Garja, amazing xd
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 05:28

Zeke wrote:Just hope to change to the cost of 4 mams card. In RE, a fortress shipment equal to 1000 resource, you pay 1000g for that card, which gives you 5 mams (5*400g=2000g). It is equivalent. However now you lose 400 resource if you send it on ep, so the cost of this card should also be reduced to 800g (or 600g though I believe no one will agree).
Also move the combat card in age 4 to age 3 will be good to boost cassadores.

that wouldnt be a good solution, the change was intended for otto same with goon RR, they are nerfed generally but it's the only unit ports have so...
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 07:22

Garja wrote:So, let me understand, are you confident that reverting vill cost and starting crate for genitours +2 range would make you win more with Ports?

No, changing your playstyle will, port is either
a aggressive map control civ, a turlte civ and/or water civ. Play it like that and not like french or brits and your win% should increase exponentially. Play a civ as it ks meant too , rather than making every civ like france. Are civs imbalanced on RE? Yes, But are they within acceptable win%? Most are. Are civs less imbalanced on EP? Probably, but that makes the game what it is not and rather one dimensional.
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02 Jun 2019, 07:35

breeze wrote:
  • Settler cost reduced to 85f (from 100f)
  • 100 food removed from starting crates
  • “Hire Egyptian Mamelukes” shipment decreased to 4 Mamelukes (from 5)
  • “Genitours” shipment effect to +4 Dragoon range (from +6)
  • Dragoon ranged resistance decreased to 20% (from 30%)
(...)
Conclusion about Portuguese is they are not buffed compared to RE and it's current situation right now isn't better than what it was on RE.
My suggestion is that this situation should not be underestimated and it should be fixed immidiately. Thank you for reading ;)

My thoughts on the topic:

The first change boosts the Portuguese economy strongly. It has the direct effect of making colonial play more viable, since you can (better) afford to build vills in both of your TC's while constructing an early army. Further, this boost scales with the number of TCs you have and, hence, it helps with the common portuguese problem of food scarcity for the first 20 minutes.

The second change is just a logical result of the first one. Your villagers cost less now and without this change you would (usually) age up with one villager less than before the change (e.g. 13 instead of 14). Since a faster (usual) age-up time was not the goal of the settler cost change, the -100 food at start is a good way to ensure that nothing changes in this regard.

The third change nerfs common portuguese FF strategies by taking away one Mameluke from the shipment. It is still a good shipment, though not extremely strong anymore. I think that is a reasonable change. Given the increased economic potential (due to reduced settler cost having an increased effect in age III), fortress gameplay may shift slightly from a more aggressive Mamluk build to a more defensive one. But that is not necessarily bad.

The last two changes are directed at the overpowered (port) dragoon. The Genitour change is modest and allows portuguese dragoons to still have an edge in combat. The change to dragoon ranged resistance affects all (?) dragoons and not just portuguese. It finally makes dragoon units counterable by skirmisher units. Sounds reasonable.
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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02 Jun 2019, 08:24

On RE goons were not counterable by skirms? Thats news to me.
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Serbia breeze
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02 Jun 2019, 08:43

breeze wrote:
  • Settler cost reduced to 85f (from 100f)
  • 100 food removed from starting crates
  • “Hire Egyptian Mamelukes” shipment decreased to 4 Mamelukes (from 5)
  • “Genitours” shipment effect to +4 Dragoon range (from +6)
  • Dragoon ranged resistance decreased to 20% (from 30%)
(...)
Conclusion about Portuguese is they are not buffed compared to RE and it's current situation right now isn't better than what it was on RE.
My suggestion is that this situation should not be underestimated and it should be fixed immidiately. Thank you for reading ;)


duckzilla wrote:My thoughts on the topic:

The first change boosts the Portuguese economy strongly. It has the direct effect of making colonial play more viable, since you can (better) afford to build vills in both of your TC's while constructing an early army. Further, this boost scales with the number of TCs you have and, hence, it helps with the common portuguese problem of food scarcity for the first 20 minutes.


It helps you after 10 minutes, as i said before for 250-300 food, your most important stuffs are being nerfed, nobody agrees with that, becuase technically you don't have unit as porto right now in age3,
duckzilla wrote:The second change is just a logical result of the first one. Your villagers cost less now and without this change you would (usually) age up with one villager less than before the change (e.g. 13 instead of 14). Since a faster (usual) age-up time was not the goal of the settler cost change, the -100 food at start is a good way to ensure that nothing changes in this regard.

As i said before, it was reasonable when villager cost was 80 food, right now
it kills your chance to go 10/10 which was a pretty strong strategy on RE, in current EP you are forced to do std play because of the change.

duckzilla wrote:The third change nerfs common portuguese FF strategies by taking away one Mameluke from the shipment. It is still a good shipment, though not extremely strong anymore. I think that is a reasonable change. Given the increased economic potential (due to reduced settler cost having an increased effect in age III), fortress gameplay may shift slightly from a more aggressive Mamluk build to a more defensive one. But that is not necessarily bad.
The mameluke nerf was intented for Ottoman I think, but it is another change that nerfs ports, as porto you can never be scary in age3 lol, only option is cassa/goon which is quite counterable with anything right now thanks to the RR nerf, Musk/huss could also be an option but port musks dont have an upgrade until age4 anyway so it's irrelevant

duckzilla wrote:The last two changes are directed at the overpowered (port) dragoon. The Genitour change is modest and allows portuguese dragoons to still have an edge in combat. The change to dragoon ranged resistance affects all (?) dragoons and not just portuguese. It finally makes dragoon units counterable by skirmisher units. Sounds reasonable.

So what? You can't ignore the fact dragoon is more important for ports when you have 90hp skirms unles other civs, you need stronger goons to defend your stuff else you will keep taking bad trades that's what is happening right now, if you ever play a game vs china/spain regardless of how good you played you will lose just because there is little chance you cant have good trades

These general changes effected porto mostly without doubt and their options are pretty much limited both in age2 and age3. All port players are agg that they are weakened, rather than strengthening.
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 08:50

breeze wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... =6&ocetter on ep but still weak if you cared to read
Hey hazza unfortunately answer is NO, there is no way you can proof ports are better than what they were on RE, Garja says EP ports are better while he is shy to bring back RE ports which says enough I think.
About ports right now they are actually losing the Mu's where they should do ok, so they are defenitely not buffed lol

The elo link you posted is irrelevant btw, you post link of 10 games and generalize ports's situation that they are better right, For example I just checked my own elo page http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1 and I have %67 win rate as russia, unlike you I really played the civ but still, I wouldn't talk that confident about russia balance lol. It's amazing that once you play the civ 10 times out 5k games. everyone is free to make a conclusion while Kynesie, Knusch Possibly Jerppa prefers RE ports over EP one.

Sure someone 10pr lower knows more than me. But feel free to continue crying as it wont be reverted.
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02 Jun 2019, 08:51

princeofcarthage wrote:On RE goons were not counterable by skirms? Thats news to me.

on RE ports had unique goons in late game same with fre/gendarme china/oldhan japan/ashi yumi and so on, so I see no logic at blaming the only unit porto has,
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02 Jun 2019, 08:55

Hazza54321 wrote:Sure someone 10pr lower knows more than me. But feel free to continue crying as it wont be reverted.


That's why you were sucking diarouga, me, and other some players everytime in the past? Wow nice to see your PR is changed while your PERSONALITY did aswell, eh that explains enough about what kind of person you are. Thanks for showing us your real personality. No more answer for hypocrites sorry.
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 08:59

breeze wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Sure someone 10pr lower knows more than me. But feel free to continue crying as it wont be reverted.


That's why you were sucking diarouga, me, and other some players everytime in the past? Wow nice to see your PR is changed while your PERSONALITY did aswell, eh that explains enough about what kind of person you are. Thanks for showing us your real personality. No more answer for hypocrites sorry.

I dont think i sucked you or diarouga once, in your dreams maybe
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02 Jun 2019, 09:06

Also I like how these one biased guys are bringing counter arguements. "It never gonna happen" "I might played porto 5 times in my life but im better player so I know more"

"we can't bring RE porto back because it's lame but EP porto is better anyway" EP porto is more lame then??? Such a logic lmao
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 10:06

breeze wrote:It helps you after 10 minutes, as i said before for 250-300 food, your most important stuffs are being nerfed, nobody agrees with that, becuase technically you don't have unit as porto right now in age3,

You don't seem to understand the difference in game dynamics triggered by the lower food costs of villagers. It is not true that after 10 minutes you magically get 300f. It is a change which incrementally increases portuguese economic potential including small scale snowball effects.
Portuguese still have a variety of strong units in age 3 (cassadores/organs/goons/musks/huss). It just appears that either you simply don't like the way these units have to be used or you don't understand how to properly make use of them.
breeze wrote:it kills your chance to go 10/10 which was a pretty strong strategy on RE, in current EP you are forced to do std play because of the change.

Imo, 10/10 was never really strong for Portuguese. It is a bad trade-off where you buy a surprise advantage at the cost of the portuguese eco bonus.
breeze wrote:The mameluke nerf was intented for Ottoman I think, but it is another change that nerfs ports, as porto you can never be scary in age3 lol, only option is cassa/goon which is quite counterable with anything right now thanks to the RR nerf, Musk/huss could also be an option but port musks dont have an upgrade until age4 anyway so it's irrelevant

Again you only bash cassa/goon. And the musk upgrade "missing" is true for all civs but british, so what?
breeze wrote:So what? You can't ignore the fact dragoon is more important for ports when you have 90hp skirms unles other civs, you need stronger goons to defend your stuff else you will keep taking bad trades that's what is happening right now, if you ever play a game vs china/spain regardless of how good you played you will lose just because there is little chance you cant have good trades

Again you only bash cassa/goon. 90hp skirms are not that much of an issue, since they have a far higher ranged resistance. Maybe you should not use them in melee?
[Walls are your friends.]
Comparison to China is arbitrary. They are one of two civs which have uniquely cost effective units.
[Organ guns can help wonders here.]
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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02 Jun 2019, 10:26

duckzilla wrote:Imo, 10/10 was never really strong for Portuguese. It is a bad trade-off where you buy a surprise advantage at the cost of the portuguese eco bonus.

F I T E M E
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02 Jun 2019, 10:34

Aizamk wrote:
duckzilla wrote:Imo, 10/10 was never really strong for Portuguese. It is a bad trade-off where you buy a surprise advantage at the cost of the portuguese eco bonus.

F I T E M E

Admittedly, I could be wrong on that one, that's why I said "imo" :P
Quite likely that I just did not understand how to pull it off properly.
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02 Jun 2019, 10:54

duckzilla wrote:
breeze wrote:It helps you after 10 minutes, as i said before for 250-300 food, your most important stuffs are being nerfed, nobody agrees with that, becuase technically you don't have unit as porto right now in age3,

You don't seem to understand the difference in game dynamics triggered by the lower food costs of villagers. It is not true that after 10 minutes you magically get 300f. It is a change which incrementally increases portuguese economic potential including small scale snowball effects.
Portuguese still have a variety of strong units in age 3 (cassadores/organs/goons/musks/huss). It just appears that either you simply don't like the way these units have to be used or you don't understand how to properly make use of them.

that's inaccurate lol, there is literally no top game being played where porto player wins with goon cassa easily, you need to be smt like 5/10 pr better to outplay opponent so at that point civs become irrelevant anyway.

duckzilla wrote:Imo, 10/10 was never really strong for Portuguese. It is a bad trade-off where you buy a surprise advantage at the cost of the portuguese eco bonus.

False, I even used to have 10/10 sea boom strats which was way more op than 13/14v up. with tp start 10/10 was quite good.

duckzilla wrote:Again you only bash cassa/goon. And the musk upgrade "missing" is true for all civs but british, so what?


As you talk about Dynamics, porto doesn't have good dynamics to go musk huss composition, as brit you can do it since you have additional 2 upgrades and cav upgrades aswell, fr doesn't need musk huss anyway, skirm cuir goon is way better. with other europe civs you generally dont need to go for musk/huss because goon/skirm is better overall when you have 150hp skirm, also you don't take it into consideration organs are too weak compared to falconets lol.


duckzilla wrote:Again you only bash cassa/goon. 90hp skirms are not that much of an issue, since they have a far higher ranged resistance. Maybe you should not use them in melee?
[Walls are your friends.]

Another inaccurate information, 2-3 cuir or heavy infrantry can kill your cassadores much easier, cassadores don't have more attack it's just ranged resistance which is equal with non-carded skirm, so any skirm with small buff is better than cassa both against melee cav and cassa, So I don't see your point right there.
Walls aren't the subject, we are talking about ports right? So I skip that one.

duckzilla wrote:Comparison to China is arbitrary. They are one of two civs which have uniquely cost effective units.
[Organ guns can help wonders here.]

Why? It's a mu where porto would do well in RE, now porto just struggles vs them, about organ guns I stopped thinking you are a porto player because it's nearly impossible to mass organs (expect 2organ shipment?) against china while their cav has range that kills your artilleries without going in, porto just don't have good artilleries, they have worst skirms in age3 and their only trick were mams which got nerfed, also their only unit goons are nerfed, I don't see any logic at thinking ports are better right now.
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02 Jun 2019, 10:54

Aizamk wrote:
duckzilla wrote:Imo, 10/10 was never really strong for Portuguese. It is a bad trade-off where you buy a surprise advantage at the cost of the portuguese eco bonus.

F I T E M E

lmao
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 11:10

breeze wrote:
duckzilla wrote:Another inaccurate information, 2-3 cuir or heavy infrantry can kill your cassadores much easier, cassadores don't have more attack it's just ranged resistance which is equal with non-carded skirm, so any skirm with small buff is better than cassa both against melee cav and cassa, So I don't see your point right there.
Walls aren't the subject, we are talking about ports right? So I skip that one.
duckzilla wrote:Comparison to China is arbitrary. They are one of two civs which have uniquely cost effective units.
[Organ guns can help wonders here.]

Why? It's a mu where porto would do well in RE, now porto just struggles vs them, about organ guns I stopped thinking you are a porto player because it's nearly impossible to mass organs (expect 2organ shipment?) against china while their cav has range that kills your artilleries without going in, porto just don't have good artilleries, they have worst skirms in age3 and their only trick were mams which got nerfed, also their only unit goons are nerfed, I don't see any logic at thinking ports are better right now.

In bold you can see your problem, under-lined is your solution. Walls are of course an issue here. Also you pretend like chinese cavalry has a range of >12, which is not the case.

Further, which "carded" skirms do you talk about? "Carded" skirms is far from being the standard, since the only civs with skirm cards are France and Dutch. The problems you discuss are incredibly specific and far from being general weaknesses.

Portuguese do not have the "worst skirms in age 3", although they may not have the best (dutch I guess...).

Organ guns are not strong vs other artillery (which is not their purpose anyway, but granted...). On the other hand, they perform better at killing infantry, which is their job!
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02 Jun 2019, 11:14

duckzilla wrote:
breeze wrote:
Show hidden quotes

In bold you can see your problem, under-lined is your solution. Walls are of course an issue here. Also you pretend like chinese cavalry has a range of >12, which is not the case.

Further, which "carded" skirms do you talk about? "Carded" skirms is far from being the standard, since the only civs with skirm cards are France and Dutch. The problems you discuss are incredibly specific and far from being general weaknesses.

Portuguese do not have the "worst skirms in age 3", although they may not have the best (dutch I guess...).

Organ guns are not strong vs other artillery (which is not their purpose anyway, but granted...). On the other hand, they perform better at killing infantry, which is their job!

Portugese do have the worst skirms in age 3. Cassadors get raped by cav, and even by hand infantry like rodoleros lol.

Also organ guns aren't really better than falcs against infantry because of their shitty animation. In a real game, you're not going to stand with your artillery and shoot, it just happens in treaty. You want to shoot, then move your canons which is something you can't do with organ guns.

The only good thing about Port in age 3 is the cav upgrade, but considering all the weaknesses I'd say that overall Port is one of the weakest civs in age 3.
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02 Jun 2019, 11:18

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
duckzilla wrote:
Show hidden quotes

In bold you can see your problem, under-lined is your solution. Walls are of course an issue here. Also you pretend like chinese cavalry has a range of >12, which is not the case.

Further, which "carded" skirms do you talk about? "Carded" skirms is far from being the standard, since the only civs with skirm cards are France and Dutch. The problems you discuss are incredibly specific and far from being general weaknesses.

Portuguese do not have the "worst skirms in age 3", although they may not have the best (dutch I guess...).

Organ guns are not strong vs other artillery (which is not their purpose anyway, but granted...). On the other hand, they perform better at killing infantry, which is their job!

Portugese do have the worst skirms in age 3. Cassadors get raped by cav, and even by hand infantry like rodoleros lol.

Also organ guns aren't really better than falcs against infantry because of their shitty animation. In a real game, you're not going to stand with your artillery and shoot, it just happens in treaty. You want to shoot, then move your canons which is something you can't do with organ guns.

The only good thing about Port in age 3 is the cav upgrade, but considering all the weaknesses I'd say that overall Port is one of the weakest civs in age 3.

organ guns have much better animation(in terms of time consuming) than falcs
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02 Jun 2019, 11:22

duckzilla wrote:
breeze wrote:
Show hidden quotes

In bold you can see your problem, under-lined is your solution. Walls are of course an issue here. Also you pretend like chinese cavalry has a range of >12, which is not the case.

Further, which "carded" skirms do you talk about? "Carded" skirms is far from being the standard, since the only civs with skirm cards are France and Dutch. The problems you discuss are incredibly specific and far from being general weaknesses.

Portuguese do not have the "worst skirms in age 3", although they may not have the best (dutch I guess...).

It is defenitely the worst skirm in age3, tell me which skirms are worse than port ones? Please don't come up with wakina because sioux dont need inf at all lol. So I dont know what you are talking about honestly. China skirms have low hp too but they really don't need protection they have tons of stuffs musks, strong pikemens, manchus, a lot of cav etc anyway.. Carded skirm is far from being the standart because you can just rekt cassa goon composition without needing it mostly yea.
duckzilla wrote:Organ guns are not strong vs other artillery (which is not their purpose anyway, but granted...). On the other hand, they perform better at killing infantry, which is their job!

How do they perform better against infrantries? I just posted a record at the 2nd page https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php ... 25#p364608 Just see how carded skirms are killing organ guns amazingly, I don't see any point at saying organs are good lol
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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02 Jun 2019, 11:22

Not really.
Anyway, any good player would take 2 falcs over 2 organ guns anyday because they're better in every situation in sup.
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02 Jun 2019, 11:23

Sargsyan wrote:organ guns have much better animation(in terms of time consuming) than falcs

You can just dodge the organ fire with 2 falcs just with a little micro, while organs need animation to finish it's damage
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02 Jun 2019, 11:25

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Not really.
Anyway, any good player would take 2 falcs over 2 organ guns anyday because they're better in every situation in sup.

Defenitely yea, ports are really one of the worst civ in age3 with worst skirms, worst artilleries and nerfed cavs right now, I hope a fix will come soon.
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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02 Jun 2019, 11:25

Yea, that was my point, organ guns need to shoot 6 times so you usually get shot two or three times before you go back, while falc only shoot once.

This is also relevant because you can snipe the organs before they finish their 6th shot, which usually happens, so they do less damage.

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