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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 3677
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

10 Jun 2019, 07:38

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>> Grand Tour Season 2 Standings <<
Event 1 out of the way! A special thank you to @Kaiserklein for once again proving that @Mitoe is, indeed, a top player, and a congratulations to the first event leader of the Grand Tour Season 2! Unfortunately there are no new badges to give out as Mitoe is already a weekend tournament winner, but regardless, yesterday's event was a lot of fun. Given the tournament format, we got to see a lot of rare matchups and uncommon gameplay (I mean, how often do you see Ottoman Jan/Culv ousting a Portuguese artillery mass?) 14 hours of raw AoE3 content spread across two channels culminating in a duel between the top 4 seeds of the tournament, all of whom will be competing in the upcoming LAN in July. We also racked up $265 in donations, of which 50% will be directed to our favorite characters' coffers. A great show, and indicative of more great stuff to come!

It's wise to take a step back and look at ways we can improve the competition. A few questions, for players and viewers alike:
- What did you think of the map pool - and particularly the no vetoes aspect?
- What did you think of the Underused format? Would you like to see more limited formats (another example being the Mono-Civ Cup, basically formats where some aspect of the gameplay is restricted)? Thoughts on a further limited, Rarely Used format that bans the most-used/best-performing civilizations of the UU event? (hint: it was actually China)
- Preference on when to start the event. Should we roll the tournaments back to start at 14:00 GMT, or is 15:00 GMT sufficient?
- There are certainly more aspects to consider, but I'll leave it here for now. All feedback is greatly appreciated!

Finally, a thank you to the folks that allow us to continue putting on these events.
Our unflagging casters: @chrisie, @loloekie10, @SirCallen, @bwinner, an honorable @Vinyanyérë, @Interjection, @TheZeroEmpires, and a pinch @Kaiserklein
Our beneficent donors: @Warno, @Vafurx, Mr. myPRis50, @Interjection once again, and @Kawapasaka
Our fastidious event coordinators: @BrookG, @Hamu3l, & @robo
sebnan12 wrote:whenever i see a picture of siege elephants i question why they do 40~ dmg when they hit u. that phat cannons probably loading coconuts
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9999

10 Jun 2019, 08:40

How about a UU mono cup?
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Canada Warno
Dragoon
Donator 07
Posts: 315
ESO: Warno

10 Jun 2019, 10:51

Very well done event, things seem to flow smoothly. Thanks to everyone who organized/played in it.

I would love to see a one day tournament like this every month, they don't have to be this long. Maybe cut out the first couple of rounds and shorten it to BO3 if the players think it is too much for one day.
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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Posts: 1645
ESO: Princeofcarthage
Location: Milky Way!

10 Jun 2019, 11:10

Some Ideas for tournament:
1) Unknown map Tournament - With Some minor script fixes to Unknown map, this map is used throughout. This map could actually lead to some interesting game plays for reasons I won't mention.
2) From start to final, finalists will play maximum of 14 matches with 14th being the last match, and no civilization can be repeated throughout the entire tournament regardless of win/loss.
--- For ex. Bo 1 Bo 1 Bo1 , Bo 3, Bo3, Bo5, Minimum civilizations and matches played by winner - 10, maximum 14
3) Fixed Civ Cup - Players will select 2 Euro, 1 Twc, 1 Tad. in any order of their choice and will continue to play the civilizations in the same order regardless of win/loss throughout the tournament.
4) No natural resource cup - Basically settler massacre but with more decent map, treasures, ban on hunt/tree shipments.
5) No shipment cup - No shipments can be sent throughout the tournament.
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France kami_ryu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1926
ESO: kami_ryu & incognoto
Location: Denver, CO, USA, Earth, Milky Way, Virgo Supercluster

10 Jun 2019, 12:32

All of it was so much fun. I loved the rules, it was tiring to see France vs France vs France vs Brits.

The two streams was perfect and there was basically no downtime whatsoever. Both streams were great, too. Overall this was so much fun yesterday. Map pool was great. How many viewers did we hit total, peak?

So much fun. Thanks all
Hold me close when it's over
Life goes slow loving sober
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Canada dansil92
Lancer
Posts: 550
ESO: dansil92

10 Jun 2019, 12:35

King of the Hill tourney anyone?
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:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
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No Flag Djigit
Lancer
Posts: 840

10 Jun 2019, 12:43

Cav-only tournament
Emperor of
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United States of America n0el
ESOC Business Team
Posts: 3228
ESO: n0eL

10 Jun 2019, 13:00

Thank you to everyone who donated, organized and played!
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Germany aligator92
Lancer
Posts: 792
ESO: aligator92

10 Jun 2019, 15:22

- map pool seemed fine, liked the no veto rule
- was nice seeing some rare civs and MUs
- starting a little earlier seems good to me, dunno if it is doable for our friends across the pond

I would like to see a tourny with a water map heavy map pool (maybe ban ports for this?)
I also like @princeofcarthage idea of limiting the number of times, you can use a civ during the entire tourny (rather gimmicky and not super competetive but should make for interesting matches when Top4 players have to save their best civs for the semis and go into uncomfortable MUs in the RO16 for instance)
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Germany Lukas_L99
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1405
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

10 Jun 2019, 17:53

Maybe start a bit earlier and have BO3s come in earlier?
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France bwinner
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1067
ESO: bwinner

10 Jun 2019, 18:54

Lukas_L99 wrote:Maybe start a bit earlier and have BO3s come in earlier?

tbh I already felt like it was quite long already, I was tired after the tourney. Maybe that's because I have started to cocast right after I stopped playing, but I guess that's even worst for the player who play longer. Playing several tourney games with presure in a row is a big effort for the brain.
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Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 7906
ESO: KTRAlN
Location: Midwest best west

10 Jun 2019, 19:11

Casht
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10000
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

10 Jun 2019, 20:13

while we're at ideas, we could shamelessly copy the AoE2 Hidden Cup, seems like a fun setting
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4102
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

10 Jun 2019, 20:21

bwinner1 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Maybe start a bit earlier and have BO3s come in earlier?

tbh I already felt like it was quite long already, I was tired after the tourney. Maybe that's because I have started to cocast right after I stopped playing, but I guess that's even worst for the player who play longer. Playing several tourney games with presure in a row is a big effort for the brain.

Yeah, I had to play my last 3 matches back to back with no break, basically 4.5 hours of non stop playing. BO3 earlier would be nice because it makes it easier for the better players to advance, but it just complicates the timetable too much IMO
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Australia robo
Musketeer
Posts: 95
ESO: robo_boro
Location: UK

10 Jun 2019, 21:16

pecelot wrote:while we're at ideas, we could shamelessly copy the AoE2 Hidden Cup, seems like a fun setting


It is a lot of work to organise.
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Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1614
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

10 Jun 2019, 22:59

robo wrote:
pecelot wrote:while we're at ideas, we could shamelessly copy the AoE2 Hidden Cup, seems like a fun setting


It is a lot of work to organise.


It would be, however one thing that aoe3 players have as an advantage is everyone has a smurf, most have multiple that other players don't know of. If you keep the cup small, say top 16 players, I think it'd be possible.
You have the charisma of a damp rag, and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk. And the question that I want to ask, that we're all going to ask, is "Who are you?"
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
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Posts: 3451
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Location: [WPact]

10 Jun 2019, 23:15

It's actually way more problematic in AoE3, for example because of having to create a ton of decks on a throwaway account.
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Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1614
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

11 Jun 2019, 00:16

What about using GR, that's far easier? It obviously wouldn't work as a weekend tournament, but as a month long tourney or something i can see it working well. I'd more than happy to donate a nice amount to the prize pool too.
You have the charisma of a damp rag, and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk. And the question that I want to ask, that we're all going to ask, is "Who are you?"
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Brazil t3rror1sta
Dragoon
Posts: 218
ESO: T3rror1sta
Location: Brazil

11 Jun 2019, 01:47

Where are the statistics of civs, maps, MUs etc??
Bolivia tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece

11 Jun 2019, 01:55

chu chu
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No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9999

11 Jun 2019, 02:20

tedere12 wrote:chu chu


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Singapore Thrar
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 60
ESO: Thrar

11 Jun 2019, 04:26

Starting earlier would be nice for those in Asia like myself, but perhaps not so nice for the Americas.

I don't think limiting civ picks to once per tournament works out well in practice. They did this in one of the major AoE2 tournaments a few months back, unfortunately I don't recall which one.
The problem was that players with an easier bracket could save better civs for later, giving those players a significant advantage in the later stage over others who came through a tougher bracket. This gets worse if you're doing BO3 (or more), since winning 2-0 against an easier opponent saves you an extra civ compared to another player who goes 2-1 against stronger opposition.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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Posts: 7906
ESO: KTRAlN
Location: Midwest best west

11 Jun 2019, 04:52

pecelot wrote:while we're at ideas, we could shamelessly copy the AoE2 Hidden Cup, seems like a fun setting

Wait, did aoe2 steal my smurf tourney idea
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4102
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

11 Jun 2019, 05:23

Riotcoke wrote:What about using GR, that's far easier? It obviously wouldn't work as a weekend tournament, but as a month long tourney or something i can see it working well. I'd more than happy to donate a nice amount to the prize pool too.

If players knew how to use GR this would be a good idea... haha
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Australia robo
Musketeer
Posts: 95
ESO: robo_boro
Location: UK

11 Jun 2019, 05:41

Thrar wrote:Starting earlier would be nice for those in Asia like myself, but perhaps not so nice for the Americas.

I don't think limiting civ picks to once per tournament works out well in practice. They did this in one of the major AoE2 tournaments a few months back, unfortunately I don't recall which one.
The problem was that players with an easier bracket could save better civs for later, giving those players a significant advantage in the later stage over others who came through a tougher bracket. This gets worse if you're doing BO3 (or more), since winning 2-0 against an easier opponent saves you an extra civ compared to another player who goes 2-1 against stronger opposition.


That was the early stages of King of the Desert 2.

The way it should be done imho, is only the first 2 civs used in a Bo3 (3 in Bo5, 4 in Bo7 etc) are removed from your available pool of civs. so that there is no (dis)advantage in what the scoreline is for each match.

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