Tournament Statistics

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Greece BrookG
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Tournament Statistics

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Post by BrookG »

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It is fairly hard to provide an interesting story that comes with the complicated statistics. So, we are skipping this step and letting the community to tell the story itself. Here we will be compiling spreadsheets with tournament data, regardless of size. The community can freely browse the sheets, and see various statistical facts like Civ Selection, Map Preferences, popular MatchUps and even aging times. Below I am including the links to the Google Sheets. This is a on-going project so if you have ideas, thoughts, feedback, or if you want to contribute yourselves, feel free to share it either here or personally to me :flowers:

Attachments
Autumn Championship 2018.xlsx
(157.51 KiB) Downloaded 50 times
New Year's Classic 2018-2019.xlsx
(13.91 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
New World Championship 2019.xlsx
(103.02 KiB) Downloaded 94 times
Underused Cup 2019.xlsx
(60.16 KiB) Downloaded 52 times
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by Cometk »

look at what I stumbled upon :)

ESOC Best Maps Showdown 2019 Statistics
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Serbia ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

No WoL Jamboree? :o
My signature was removed, MOD ABUSE!
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

Two Towns Tournament added and few details edited in Underused sheet :bump:
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

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Post by BrookG »

ÎťWC sheet was updated with LAN stats
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by zoom »

Excellent job, guys!
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

A few analysis :

Maps

1) Players like to play on Kamchatka, Florida and Pampa which is why these maps weren't veto'd a lot.
Players don't like to play on Trash Desert, High Plains and New England.
My conclusion : Everybody likes to play on Standard maps, but it's likely at least one of the two players doesn't like to play on unstandard maps. Thus, I think that least half of the tourney maps should be standard.

2) India was overplayed on Deccan as the map is just too good for India.
My conclusion : Remove Deccan from the future map pools, as there's only one way to play it.

3) People almost only play India and Russia on no TP maps.
My conclusion : I've always been against no TP maps for that reason. You can't age (because no TPs), so you have to take the map and play the game in late colonial. I don't think that having only 2-3 viable civs with one playstyle on a map is healthy for a tournament. Thus, admins should be careful when making the map pools. I think that more than 1 TP maps for a BO7- is too much, and then it should be a good no TP maps (not Trash Desert :chinese: ).

MUs and civs :

1) Thanks to the rules, we didn't have a lot of mirrors, which is good imo. Furthemore, almost 90% of the possible MUs were played in the tourney, and more than 50% at the LAN (I'm actually surprised).
My conclusion : Keep the same picking rules.

I couldn't find the win rates, so can't discuss balance.

Meta :

1) In more than half of the games, one of the players went age 2 and never aged.
My conclusion : I'm not sure that there's an issue with the "age 3 meta". If half of the people play in colonial, it shows that they believe that playing age 2 is possible. Both players don't have to play in colo though, and age 2 vs age 3 is interesting.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

Regarding winrates, it was an educated decision to exclude them, because the amount of matches would have been too small for providing any significant result. Any conclusion would have been biased. Consider, for example, the Spain situation. It was one of the least played civs (32 times), any winrate wouldn't be suggestive of the civ's actual status in the civ pool.

Touching upon the map issue, I will disagree on two points. Deccan was picked because of its special starting crates and its unique geography. Indians were highly chosen in LAN (8 times). In the rest of the tournament Indians were played 18 times, followed by British (17 times) and French (11 times). In my opinion, it is hard to deduce something about them just being too strong on that map. These civs were top picks in the whole tournament in the first place. Lastly, Deccan was only 6th out of 9 maps played in total and 1st in LAN. Thar Dessert, however, and New England were last, which might mean that non-TP maps aren't as popular with the players and New England honestly offers more strategic options and is a harder map for less experienced players.

Non-TP maps although unpopular are necessary because you would have to reiterate similar MUs and a tournament of such a scale requires to test the players in all possible situations and skills. And yes Indians and Russians is safer than your other options are maybe Dutch, Aztecs or Japanese among others. Is it a map's problem that they aren't picked or civ balance issue?

And about "age 3 meta" you may read again, because at least one player went to age3 in ~9/10 their games. One player staying in colonial, doesn't exclude the situation where the other aged to Fortress.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by Mitoe »

I strongly disagree with Deccan being a limited map. I think pretty much every civ is playable there. Like NE, I don’t think the players really tried to figure things out as much.


I still think winrates should be included. It’s simply the most interesting statistic regardless of its implications.
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Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

I've only briefly had a look through one of the sheets, It looks really in depth and excellent but a bit of a ball ache to keep on top of things. I think adding input data in terms of a massive table and using pivot tables and pivot charts (charts with filter options) to automatically read off and process the data is the next step to go.

I will have a longer look when I get home from work however excel spreadsheets and dashboards/reports and general Data stuff is my forte.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

Updated Winrates on NWC 2019 Statistics. Please be careful when explaining them, since the games played aren't always enough to extract a definitive output.
Mirrors were exlcuded

[spoiler=spoiler]@Mitoe[/spoiler]
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Tbh they're still more relevant than the pr40 vs pr20 games.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

In the process of maintaining the same format for all sheets, a complementary sheet was added for Autumn 2018.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

Watch the EPL stat sheet update, updated the thread
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

EPL sheet is completed. Short discussion and analysis coming soon
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
Germany lordraphael
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by lordraphael »

germans at a broken 45 % again. THat civ ...
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

I dont even need to look into the sheet to guess that India vs russ was most played matchup on non-tp maps.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Buff sioux!!!
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by BrookG »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I dont even need to look into the sheet to guess that India vs russ was most played matchup on non-tp maps.
Iirc 11 times
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I dont even need to look into the sheet to guess that India vs russ was most played matchup on non-tp maps.
We're going to experiment with removing non-tp maps from the tournament map pool in favor of more non-standard TP maps like Bonnie Springs to promote civilization diversity in a future tournament. The current meta does seem to favor Russia v India on non-tp maps. We saw some Dutch and even Aztecs play every now and then, but these civilizations are evidently weaker and less viable.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I dont even need to look into the sheet to guess that India vs russ was most played matchup on non-tp maps.
We're going to experiment with removing non-tp maps from the tournament map pool in favor of more non-standard TP maps like Bonnie Springs to promote civilization diversity in a future tournament. The current meta does seem to favor Russia v India on non-tp maps. We saw some Dutch and even Aztecs play every now and then, but these civilizations are evidently weaker and less viable.
Oh no!
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Tournament Statistics

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Unstandard maps? Yes!
Bonnie Springs? No!
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France Guigs
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Post by Guigs »

Wonder what’s ger win rate (mirror excluded) on his tourney, pretty sure it’s quite low
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Greece BrookG
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Re:

Post by BrookG »

Lecastete wrote:Wonder what’s ger win rate (mirror excluded) on his tourney, pretty sure it’s quite low
mirrors are excluded in the sheet. Ger win rate is pretty average, ~45%, but assume an error margin as well
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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Re:

Post by Riotcoke »

Lecastete wrote:Wonder what’s ger win rate (mirror excluded) on his tourney, pretty sure it’s quite low
Germany still op though, don't look at the facts!
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