What do you think of Two Town format?

The one true format
6
11%
Fun experiment
44
79%
Bad format, balance totally ruined
6
11%
 
Total votes: 56

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United States of America musketeer925
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23 Jun 2019, 22:29

In general, how do people feel the two town format? I felt like it added a lot more options for players and more depth to age 1 than just "who gets better treasures?" -- you actually have to decide whether to invest in full eco or idle some of your TCs before aging up. Games go slightly longer, reaching industrial slightly more often, more age 1 shipments are viable, and it feels more like the way the game was meant to be played in some sense.

Is civ balance totally ruined? Are the extra "options" we saw today really just because the meta didn't have time to stabilize? Is it a superior format to regular supremacy? Was Otto ban unwarranted?

Was it just a fun experiment, or is this the one true format?
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Turkey Mameluke
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23 Jun 2019, 22:34

1. It makes the game more dynamic which I like.
2. Civ balance is really ruined somewhat, Ottoman and France outstanding and Japan for example seems to suck (if you look at stats).
3. I wouldnt say its superior, but definitely something good as a variety.
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23 Jun 2019, 22:36

I wouldn't like to see this again. Civ balance made civs like india/dutch absolutely terrible because of bad gathering rates. And for example fre has 1 min faster ff than iro with better eco.
Also, same maps and same match ups made it a little bit boring.
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United States of America musketeer925
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23 Jun 2019, 22:38

somppukunkku wrote:I wouldn't like to see this again. Civ balance made civs like india/dutch absolutely terrible because of bad gathering rates. And for example fre has 1 min faster ff than iro with better eco.
Also, same maps and same match ups made it a little bit boring.

Civ balance does seem like it coud be an issue (no big surprise since the game wasn't balanced with this in mind).

I agree that the map pool could have used some more diversity. BO1's resulted in a lot of the same map, so the BO1 maps for sure shouldn't have been re-used in later rounds IMO. However this was more the tournament format than the Two Town format, which is a different discussion than what I intended for this thread.
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23 Jun 2019, 22:41

I think if AOE3 originally started like this, the game would be more interesting.
However, I think it would take years to find a decent civ balance to make this format legit for all civs.
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United States of America musketeer925
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23 Jun 2019, 22:42

somppukunkku wrote:I think if AOE3 originally started like this, the game would be more interesting.
However, I think it would take years to find a decent civ balance to make this format legit for all civs.

Yeah, this is kind of how I feel about it.
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Italy Garja
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23 Jun 2019, 22:47

2 TCs from start is overkill. +1 TC limit per age is ok but it fucks over port bonus.
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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23 Jun 2019, 23:22

Garja wrote:2 TCs from start is overkill. +1 TC limit per age is ok but it fucks over port bonus.

I mean 2 tcs from the start was the whole point +1tc limit per age wouldn't make a huge difference so you wouldn't see the flavour.
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Italy Garja
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23 Jun 2019, 23:28

It would make huge difference.
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23 Jun 2019, 23:35

I actually like garja's idea.
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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23 Jun 2019, 23:38

It is a fun experiment, but I don't see it coming back in any future tournaments unless Escape enjoyed it substantially more than I did. Most games seemed to turn into NR10s with the one unique tower TC rush.
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Great Britain Interjection
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24 Jun 2019, 00:07

I thoroughly enjoyed today, was great fun casting. Seems like an interesting format with a lot of depth, particularly in age 1 as mentioned. But I wouldn't want make it a regular thing.
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China Zeke
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24 Jun 2019, 04:38

Was a new format and there were some other options rather than the fixed and usual one in normal patch. However, idk but it seems to benefit European civs more which on the other hand hurts Asian civs (Asian civs usually get advantage with their wonders and their eco are somewhat based on non-villager stuffs, while European civs mainly get eco from villagers) It can be proved by the high use/win rate of French, Brit, Port and Russia (probably also Otto if it's not banned)
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China Zeke
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24 Jun 2019, 04:45

On the normal patch European civs only get more TC till fortress age and takes long time to build one so it takes longer time to benefit from that TC. Also at that time the natural resources went low and map control can make new TC less efficiently. I think we should enable the European villagers (settlers) to build TC or let the explorer build TC faster like the cover wagon does.
No Flag nono12
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24 Jun 2019, 10:27

Garja wrote:2 TCs from start is overkill. +1 TC limit per age is ok but it fucks over port bonus.


Then age 1 u can have 2 tcs, 3 tcs age 2 etc... or 1tc age 1, 2 tc age 2 etc... ?
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Crossbow
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24 Jun 2019, 10:28

Or 2 tcs max till age 3 and then 4 tcs max
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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24 Jun 2019, 11:03

Just remove the build limit. Build limit is lazy design. "Oh we can't balance this unit so let's just limit it, that way it can be OP but can't be abused".
TCs aren't even that good anyway. If you remove the limit it's not like people will start building them everywhere. And if they do, you increase cost.
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Great Britain Interjection
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24 Jun 2019, 11:29

I'd quite like to try a format at some point where there is no TC build limit and they can be built from age 1. Might be fun
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24 Jun 2019, 11:32

Goodspeed wrote:Just remove the build limit. Build limit is lazy design. "Oh we can't balance this unit so let's just limit it, that way it can be OP but can't be abused".
TCs aren't even that good anyway. If you remove the limit it's not like people will start building them everywhere. And if they do, you increase cost.


incrementally.
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No Flag Djigit
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24 Jun 2019, 11:34

If it's feasible, I'd like to see a format where the game speed is between normal and fast.
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Sweden tabben
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24 Jun 2019, 12:57

somppukunkku wrote: And for example fre has 1 min faster ff than iro

Just curious, what do you even base this statement on? When did you test this? I just hope you're not referring to our iro vs france game in the tourney, please tell me if that's the case :biggrin:
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France bwinner
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24 Jun 2019, 13:16

This kind of ideas are interesting because you really need to prepare some builds. We have seen that people who hadn't builds prepared like raphael or myself stood no chance (That's why I was so fed up with the last second Otto ban).
However I prefered by far the double shipments SmackDown patch if we had to do this kind of stuff again. Mostly because here it's macro is top important while in 2xshipments you could do more interesting builds. Anyway for fuck sake don't change the rules just befor the tourney start.
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No Flag ovi12
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24 Jun 2019, 14:03

Thank you for hosting the tournament and the smackdown, it was extremely entertaining.

With that said, judging it as a smackdown, it was probably my least favorite one. It wasn't as exciting as the double shipments or the factory start; the thing that I really liked most were the Ceylon games; I would rather take those with 1 TC over any other games with 2 TC's.
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France kami_ryu
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24 Jun 2019, 14:24

This experiment was one of the most fun and well designed smackdown ideas yet. I really enjoyed seeing how 10 extra pop and a free map control building was skewing builds and opening up new possibilities.

We should really have these smackdown patches be online for 2 or 3 weeks before changing the new rule. Like Hearthstone whatever it's called
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24 Jun 2019, 14:41

bwinner1 wrote:This kind of ideas are interesting because you really need to prepare some builds. We have seen that people who hadn't builds prepared like raphael or myself stood no chance (That's why I was so fed up with the last second Otto ban).
However I prefered by far the double shipments SmackDown patch if we had to do this kind of stuff again. Mostly because here it's macro is top important while in 2xshipments you could do more interesting builds. Anyway for fuck sake don't change the rules just befor the tourney start.

Builds as india :uglylol:

The biggest mistake Raphael did was clicking India without thinking about the math.
Food gathers more than 50% faster than India gathers wood. I just checked the record. Raphael is basically training vills from 1 TC first 2 and half minutes. Simply because you can't afford more. At some point Raphael understands that if he doesn't start gathering food instead of wood, aging up takes simply forever. 800 food, place wonder, and after you still can't really afford 2 TC production.

300w? Terrible, you don't get a free vill. Basically having xp penalty for nothing. You even have to replace it with trickle because TP is impossible.
Outcome? Raphael ages up around 10 vills less than opponent, only slightly faster age up. The snowball is ready to start rolling.

Ps. Rapha if you read this, get discount bombards with GFA next time.
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