India TNT333
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29 Jun 2019, 13:18

Which civ is the best for a long drawn out war of attrition? The factors would probably be fast train time, good eco, etc.
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Germany amiggo1999
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29 Jun 2019, 13:19

russia
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29 Jun 2019, 13:25

france is the best by far
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United States of America Squamiger
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29 Jun 2019, 14:02

for an actual, super late game war of attrition, it's the top 40min treaty civs - ports, china, france, russia.

for the reality of how wars of attrition play out in supremacy, i.e., a long colonial back and forth in which both players find time to age that slowly scales up into a long fortress back and forth, that usually ends when one player squeaks out industrial first and wins with heavy cannons and upgraded units, for me, it's Russia. The late-colonial economic scaling is just too good, and it's combined with a military that is pretty much unbeatable if they are smart and don't rush in. Russia can almost always afford to sit back, take map control, and wait for their opponent to come to them, and then trade well under 2+ blockhouses with boyars strelets and cossacks. then, just by virtue of keeping up vill production, they'll be ahead in eco by around 14-16 minutes and will only keep getting stronger. Plus they have a fast age to fortress where they can just go crazy with strel combat, cav combat, and extra TCs to become a serious powerhouse.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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29 Jun 2019, 14:09

I think China is pretty good, wonders produce units/res for free, easier transition than euro/twc civs once mines run out thanks to rice paddies, can send the saiga card, ...
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Italy Garja
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29 Jun 2019, 14:56

Russia, china, aztecs. Japan also does very well even tho their civ design doesn't suggest they are an attrition civ.
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Canada dansil92
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29 Jun 2019, 17:36

brits. Brits can stretch coin supplies through longbow production, their units scale well and are able to use range to poke very effectively.

Russia is probably the other main civ for attrition, or aztec as long as the game doesnt go industrial.

Iro can definitely draw games out with super cheap/free plantations and decently powerful units. They dont have many train time options but they are strong
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Poland pecelot
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29 Jun 2019, 23:19

Russia, they have plenty of Siberian wasteland for you to be wasted, supply limits there are low, and if they take defensive ideas you get additional attrition as an enemy :idea:
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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29 Jun 2019, 23:24

pecelot wrote:Russia, they have plenty of Siberian wasteland for you to be wasted, supply limits there are low, and if they take defensive ideas you get additional attrition as an enemy :idea:


And +15 percent morale.
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Switzerland sebnan12
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30 Jun 2019, 07:04

whatever civ sir_musket is using
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Germany duckzilla
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30 Jun 2019, 07:39

Squamiger wrote:for an actual, super late game war of attrition, it's the top 40min treaty civs - ports, china, france, russia.

for the reality of how wars of attrition play out in supremacy, i.e., a long colonial back and forth in which both players find time to age that slowly scales up into a long fortress back and forth, that usually ends when one player squeaks out industrial first and wins with heavy cannons and upgraded units, for me, it's Russia. The late-colonial economic scaling is just too good, and it's combined with a military that is pretty much unbeatable if they are smart and don't rush in. Russia can almost always afford to sit back, take map control, and wait for their opponent to come to them, and then trade well under 2+ blockhouses with boyars strelets and cossacks. then, just by virtue of keeping up vill production, they'll be ahead in eco by around 14-16 minutes and will only keep getting stronger. Plus they have a fast age to fortress where they can just go crazy with strel combat, cav combat, and extra TCs to become a serious powerhouse.

To expand on the strength of Russia, Russian infantry also scales on their fortress stats (like cuirs). In a long colonial game, Advanced Arsenal is a really good option to improve your musk/strels even further. They end up with the cheapest, fastest to produce and best-upgradeable infantry in colo fights.
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Poland pecelot
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30 Jun 2019, 10:22

how is that? ruskets and strelets are available in age 2
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Germany duckzilla
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30 Jun 2019, 10:29

Yes, they are a big exception to the general game rules. You can clearly see it when you upgrade your strelets to veteran or guard, because their new base hp is suddenly 90hp instead of the age II value of 72hp. Same should be true for Russian muskets.

It is also why Russia profits the most from the +10% inf hp treasure. For them it is actually +12.5%.


edit:
Strelet base stats are actually: 90hp/10dmg. To get age II stats, developers just reduced both by 20%, yielding 72hp/8dmg. When you research veteran upgrade, you however get back to 90hp/10dmg, since upgrades stack additively, just like the 20% reduction.
If age II stats would be the base, then vet. strelets should have 86hp/9.6dmg, which is not the case.
Strelets are secretly the best unit in the game.
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India TNT333
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30 Jun 2019, 15:47

Lukas_L99 wrote:I think China is pretty good, wonders produce units/res for free, easier transition than euro/twc civs once mines run out thanks to rice paddies, can send the saiga card, ...

A Factor to consider is also Training time and i Feel Chinas units dont Train that fast enough. Also i tink German is pretty good for attrition as the have a great eco with settler wagon and the war wagon is so gr8 for drawing out wars and super uhlans
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Italy Garja
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30 Jun 2019, 16:09

I am a bit confused at the replies in this thread.
The requirement for war of attrition is having as many survival mechanics as possible. The main ones are:
- getting units/resources from free (cards, consulate, firepit, wonders, factories, bbs, etc.)
- having cheap, cost effective units
- having key units that cost wood
- having an overall macro that is balanced across all 3 resources

Based on that, civs with strong premium units and that have to directly consume resources to get most of their stuff are the less suitable for war of attrition. Therefore civs like French, Germans, Brits (to some extent) are ruled out for sure.
Best attrition civs are definetely China and Russia, as it is also their obvious design. After that I'd say Aztecs, Iro and the other Asian civs have pretty good survival mechanics.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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30 Jun 2019, 17:32

TNT333 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:I think China is pretty good, wonders produce units/res for free, easier transition than euro/twc civs once mines run out thanks to rice paddies, can send the saiga card, ...

A Factor to consider is also Training time and i Feel Chinas units dont Train that fast enough. Also i tink German is pretty good for attrition as the have a great eco with settler wagon and the war wagon is so gr8 for drawing out wars and super uhlans


What? China's train times are fine.

Germany is actually pretty bad as once coin runs out they can't train their main units anymore and need to pay 800 wood for each plantation.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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30 Jun 2019, 17:46

Lategame china units train slow
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United States of America Squamiger
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30 Jun 2019, 17:54

this thread has shown me why my favorite civs are all russia, china, aztecs, and other "attrition" civs - it must be my favored playstyle since i suck at micro and "crushing" fights as the pros say and instead i can only win by trading forever until i outscale
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Canada dansil92
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30 Jun 2019, 18:02

Lukas_L99 wrote:
TNT333 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:I think China is pretty good, wonders produce units/res for free, easier transition than euro/twc civs once mines run out thanks to rice paddies, can send the saiga card, ...

A Factor to consider is also Training time and i Feel Chinas units dont Train that fast enough. Also i tink German is pretty good for attrition as the have a great eco with settler wagon and the war wagon is so gr8 for drawing out wars and super uhlans


What? China's train times are fine.

Germany is actually pretty bad as once coin runs out they can't train their main units anymore and need to pay 800 wood for each plantation.


BUT they only need one plantation per 20 vills if they are smart with their wagons which is the same cost per vill as rice patties
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Germany Lukas_L99
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30 Jun 2019, 18:03

dansil92 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
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What? China's train times are fine.

Germany is actually pretty bad as once coin runs out they can't train their main units anymore and need to pay 800 wood for each plantation.


BUT they only need one plantation per 20 vills if they are smart with their wagons which is the same cost per vill as rice patties


No, they need more coin than that. And you usually don't have more than 8 SW.
Bhutan jgals
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06 Jul 2019, 14:25

Squamiger wrote:for an actual, super late game war of attrition, it's the top 40min treaty civs - ports, china, france, russia.

for the reality of how wars of attrition play out in supremacy, i.e., a long colonial back and forth in which both players find time to age that slowly scales up into a long fortress back and forth, that usually ends when one player squeaks out industrial first and wins with heavy cannons and upgraded units, for me, it's Russia. The late-colonial economic scaling is just too good, and it's combined with a military that is pretty much unbeatable if they are smart and don't rush in. Russia can almost always afford to sit back, take map control, and wait for their opponent to come to them, and then trade well under 2+ blockhouses with boyars strelets and cossacks. then, just by virtue of keeping up vill production, they'll be ahead in eco by around 14-16 minutes and will only keep getting stronger. Plus they have a fast age to fortress where they can just go crazy with strel combat, cav combat, and extra TCs to become a serious powerhouse.

I never thought I'd say this but you are making me want to play russia

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