Non-viable units
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Non-viable units
This is pure curiosity, I'm not saying these units should be buffed, I'm just wondering if it has ever been considered. The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers - has the EP team ever thought about changing these units, or are the implications of making them viable while maintaining their uniqueness too game-breaking?
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Re: Non-viable units
Ep uhlans , jans
Re: Non-viable units
Bad, yes.
I feel like mantlets are underused in skirm wars (iro dont have 7 prowlers why not send 5 mantlets?)
Flamthrowers are used in some aiz strats.
I feel like mantlets are underused in skirm wars (iro dont have 7 prowlers why not send 5 mantlets?)
Flamthrowers are used in some aiz strats.
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Re: Non-viable units
Kawapasaka wrote:This is pure curiosity, I'm not saying these units should be buffed, I'm just wondering if its ever been considered. The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers - Has EP ever thought about changing these units, or are the implications of making them viable too game-breaking?
The goal of EP was to fix balance without taking the risk of creating new unbalances, so i don't think it was really ever considered. The list of underused units/stuff that need some sort of tweak would be very long anyway. I hope they'll look into it in the definitive edition.
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Re: Non-viable units
Arsonists, Blind Monks, Wokou Ronin. Blind monks being the worst units in the game.
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Re: Non-viable units
yemshi wrote:Bad, yes.
I feel like mantlets are underused in skirm wars (iro dont have 7 prowlers why not send 5 mantlets?)
Flamthrowers are used in some aiz strats.
Mantlets are just too slow. Give them 4 speed and they become viable imo. 5 mantlets in age 3 and 7 infinite in age 4 are also actually pretty good shipments
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
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Re: Non-viable units
Kawapasaka wrote:The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers
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Re: Non-viable units
Lukas_L99 wrote:Kawapasaka wrote:The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers
Come to think of it I have lost to some troll flamethrower builds in the past but I assumed that was just terrible play by me and the unit was still rubbish. I remember reading here that an equal cost-amount of musks beats a flamethrower even at range, is it really any good?
Re: Non-viable units
Mantlets are far from non viable. The only real drawback is that they're slow AF otherwise they're pretty damn good in every regard. They still have room to be used even in the current meta.
Less viable units are:
- grenadiers, just too expensive for how they perform
- tashunke prowlers, they're just super redundant and only there cause all TWC must have a stealth unit
- arrow knights. incredibly situational, supposed to be more than that if you look at aztec unit pool
- samurai. Yes, ashi are not the greatest anticav before the combat card and yes, yamabushi have ranged resistance but still doesn't seem japan needs other anticav units. Included just because it's an iconic unit.
- flamethrower, interesting unit concpept but totally overshadowed by all other China units. If it was less expensive maybe it would have a place (currently no way to make castle+enough FT when opponent just ages and makes it obsolete).
- rajput, not exactly non viable but overshadowed by all other india units. In fact actually a good unit.
- flail elephant, ram type unit which India basically doesn't ever employ since all other units have plenty of siege.
Less viable units are:
- grenadiers, just too expensive for how they perform
- tashunke prowlers, they're just super redundant and only there cause all TWC must have a stealth unit
- arrow knights. incredibly situational, supposed to be more than that if you look at aztec unit pool
- samurai. Yes, ashi are not the greatest anticav before the combat card and yes, yamabushi have ranged resistance but still doesn't seem japan needs other anticav units. Included just because it's an iconic unit.
- flamethrower, interesting unit concpept but totally overshadowed by all other China units. If it was less expensive maybe it would have a place (currently no way to make castle+enough FT when opponent just ages and makes it obsolete).
- rajput, not exactly non viable but overshadowed by all other india units. In fact actually a good unit.
- flail elephant, ram type unit which India basically doesn't ever employ since all other units have plenty of siege.
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Re: Non-viable units
Garja wrote:Mantlets are far from non viable. The only real drawbac is that they're slow AF otherwise they're pretty damn good in every regard. They still have room to be used even in the current meta.
Less viable units are:
- grenadiers, just too expensive for how they perform
- tashunke prowlers, they're just super redundant and only there cause all TWC must have a stealth unit
- arrow knights. incredibly situational, supposed to be more than that if you look at aztec unit pool
- samurai. Yes, ashi are not the greatest anticav before the combat card and yes, yamabushi have ranged resistance but still doesn't seem japan needs other anticav units. Included just because it's an iconic unit.
- flamethrower, interesting unit concpept but totally overshadowed by all other China units. If it was less expensive maybe it would have a place (currently no way to make castle+enough FT when opponent just ages and makes it obsolete).
- rajput, not exactly non viable but overshadowed by all other india units. In fact actually a good unit.
- flail elephant, ram type unit which India basically doesn't ever employ since all other units have plenty of siege.
as the only Iroquois mainer left it would be nice to see mantlets cost reduced a bit. 50 wood would be more appropriate in my opinion. everything else can remain the same, even their slow speed. Although, they should not cause units to change into a weird spread out formation when grouped, and should be made to go to the front better.
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Re: Non-viable units
@Garja Aren't arrow knights really good for a age 3 unit? They seem very cost efficient from 125 resources for 30 range, good siege damage, good anti-artillery and also good anti-ship? They're not as good as culverins but they're still good especially for aztecs right?
Also, why do you say rajputs are good units? They don't even have good siege damage. I mean 100 f, 25 w for making them, that's kind of expensive than sepoys. They are not even as good as rodeleros.
Also, why do you say rajputs are good units? They don't even have good siege damage. I mean 100 f, 25 w for making them, that's kind of expensive than sepoys. They are not even as good as rodeleros.
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Re: Non-viable units
Arrow knights are awful, and rajputs are even worse.
Re: Non-viable units
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Arrow knights are awful, and rajputs are even worse.
Arrow knights in fortress are absolutely garbage. They get better late game (attack dance, cards etc by 210% to attack for example) but they are still never fantastic.
Id like to see rajputs cost dropped or something. Their speed and high melee damage has potential but the cost is so prohibitive
Mantlets its literally just the speed that sucks but they can tank so much in skirm wars
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Re: Non-viable units
Arrows are great vs art but thats about it
Re: Non-viable units
Kawapasaka wrote:Lukas_L99 wrote:Kawapasaka wrote:The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers
Come to think of it I have lost to some troll flamethrower builds in the past but I assumed that was just terrible play by me and the unit was still rubbish. I remember reading here that an equal cost-amount of musks beats a flamethrower even at range, is it really any good?
They can be great vs a bow/pike rush like mookie did it, or just inf rushes in general. Also theyre not that bad vs civs who dont go skirm/goon or cav heavy.
Re: Non-viable units
Hazza54321 wrote:Arrows are great vs art but thats about it
Not like the average game with aztec goes to imperial but they do get up to 31 ranged attack with the rof of any other archer. Not really worth two pop but to say they are only good vs artillery is an overstatement. In fortress they are bad at everything. 12.5 damage to artillery... so strong. ...
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Re: Non-viable units
Riotcoke wrote:Arsonists, Blind Monks, Wokou Ronin. Blind monks being the worst units in the game.
They’re blind, cut them some slack.
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Re: Non-viable units
dansil92 wrote:Hazza54321 wrote:Arrows are great vs art but thats about it
Not like the average game with aztec goes to imperial but they do get up to 31 ranged attack with the rof of any other archer. Not really worth two pop but to say they are only good vs artillery is an overstatement. In fortress they are bad at everything. 12.5 damage to artillery... so strong. ...
Yeah theyre poor vs everything else but great vs artilerry
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Re: Non-viable units
evilcheadar wrote:Riotcoke wrote:Arsonists, Blind Monks, Wokou Ronin. Blind monks being the worst units in the game.
They’re blind, cut them some slack.
Shouldn't be fighting if they're blind!
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Re: Non-viable units
There people who are brigadier with flame thrower how is it bad lul
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Re: Non-viable units
Please set blind monk LoS to 0. unit should not be able to scout.
IMO, cost adjustments make for an easy way to try to balance under used units. things can only be over- and under-powered relative to their costs.
IMO, cost adjustments make for an easy way to try to balance under used units. things can only be over- and under-powered relative to their costs.
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Re: Non-viable units
Hazza54321 wrote:Arrows are great vs art but thats about it
Not even that good vs art. They take ages to kill the canons, thus they can rape your infantry.
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Re: Non-viable units
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Hazza54321 wrote:Arrows are great vs art but thats about it
Not even that good vs art. They take ages to kill the canons, thus they can rape your infantry.
They're also good at pressuring through siege aren't they?
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Re: Non-viable units
Yes, yes, and yes.Kawapasaka wrote:This is pure curiosity, I'm not saying these units should be buffed, I'm just wondering if it has ever been considered. The three that spring to mind for me immediately are Tashunke Prowlers, Mantlets and Flamethrowers - has the EP team ever thought about changing these units, or are the implications of making them viable while maintaining their uniqueness too game-breaking?
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Re: Non-viable units
How does making such nieche units viable have gamebreaking implications?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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