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New Zealand ocemilky
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22 Jul 2019, 04:34

What's a way to nerf ger? Removing the Ulhan bonus on eco shipments? Slowing fast age for them? Keeping their ulhan bonus but maybe nerfing the shipment itself? Nerfing SW?
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Great Britain Method_man714
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22 Jul 2019, 08:38

They dont need a nerf lol. The only mu germany won at the lan was german mirror.
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Vietnam duckzilla
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22 Jul 2019, 08:43

Top nerf for Germans: git gud
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 09:02

Method_man714 wrote:They dont need a nerf lol. The only mu germany won at the lan was german mirror.

And Germany vs France, and Germany vs China.
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Great Britain Hazza54321
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22 Jul 2019, 09:04

Tbh if we were to go by LAN results , russia would be the best civ and german the worst.
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Great Britain Method_man714
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22 Jul 2019, 09:35

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Method_man714 wrote:They dont need a nerf lol. The only mu germany won at the lan was german mirror.

And Germany vs France, and Germany vs China.


You really going to count the germany vs france? :D
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 09:39

Idk, why would you count the other games?
Also kaiser won against India on Deccan and against Mitoe playing Jap on High Plains.
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France Kaiserklein
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22 Jul 2019, 13:25

I'm the only one who won non mirrors with germany at LAN. Conclusion: the player is OP, not the civ.

Seriously though, idk what to even answer anymore lol. Somppu literally spends his time online arguing with shitty arguments that germany is insanely OP. He's being so vocal about it (as well as hazza and diarouga to some extent) that it feels like everyone thinks germany is super OP. When in fact, if you ask me, Mitoe, Prince, or Raphael (half the LAN players already, not sure what tabben or erik think), the answer will be totally different. But that's only because we're biased german lamers!

I'd be willing to play a best of x, playing civs of my choice on standard maps, against a top player playing only germany, to prove it's not THAT op. Even though it's probably useless because somppu will find some sort of excuses about why germany lost.

Again, just to make it clear, I do think germany deserves some nerf. Just tired of people exaggerating all the time.
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Spain Snuden
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22 Jul 2019, 14:24

Kawapasaka wrote:How should Brit play this? Assuming Germany just does normal semi stuff.

VC pike semi.
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No Flag bepsi
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22 Jul 2019, 16:33

Kaiserklein wrote:[...]I don't outmass you in colo if you age on time and do Mitoe's cav stuff. Or diarouga's vc lb pike semi thing[...]


I'd be interested in knowing the general BO for Mitoe's cav stuff and diarouga's lb pike semi thing. :chinese:
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 16:47

bepsi wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:[...]I don't outmass you in colo if you age on time and do Mitoe's cav stuff. Or diarouga's vc lb pike semi thing[...]


I'd be interested in knowing the general BO for Mitoe's cav stuff and diarouga's lb pike semi thing. :chinese:

For my BO you can watch my first game vs tabben from the LAN.
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Brazil marcos kratos
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22 Jul 2019, 17:09

brit is favored in mu vs german lol
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 17:22

marcos kratos wrote:brit is favored in mu vs german lol

Not really, it's close.
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No Flag bepsi
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22 Jul 2019, 17:43

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bepsi wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:[...]I don't outmass you in colo if you age on time and do Mitoe's cav stuff. Or diarouga's vc lb pike semi thing[...]


I'd be interested in knowing the general BO for Mitoe's cav stuff and diarouga's lb pike semi thing. :chinese:

For my BO you can watch my first game vs tabben from the LAN.


Was it a 200 w start? Would you gather for TP during transition and go for the same card order otherwise?
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 17:45

It was a 200w start.
Without it, I'd do the same without TP and without 3v shipment
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No Flag bepsi
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22 Jul 2019, 17:48

[Armag] diarouga wrote:It was a 200w start.
Without it, I'd do the same without TP and without 3v shipment


Interesting. So VC first unless wood start and age up with 13-14 vills?
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Jul 2019, 17:51

bepsi wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:It was a 200w start.
Without it, I'd do the same without TP and without 3v shipment


Interesting. So VC first unless wood start and age up with 13-14 vills?

Yep.
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United States of America Papist
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23 Jul 2019, 05:26

Would changing Germany's merc shipments to the standard European levels (i.e. 10 jaegars instead of 13, 7 BR instead of 9) make them a bit more reasonable? It seems pretty ridiculous that they get 30% more value for the same price as other civs' merc shipments.
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United States of America 007Salt
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23 Jul 2019, 05:29

Just give Germany ulhan instead of extra mercs imo
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Kiribati SirCallen
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23 Jul 2019, 05:30

Well, their shipments require more xp.

No one has voiced concern that 13 -> 12 jeagers is an unreasonable change, and it's far less knee-jerky than 13 -> 10. Ger is the only EU civ that doesn't have 2 falcs (or equivalent) except for Dutch, who get skirm upgrades. It's nice for them to have skirm presence.

This is the only change I'd make to Ger I think.
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United States of America Papist
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23 Jul 2019, 05:34

SirCallen wrote:Well, their shipments require more xp.

No one has voiced concern that 13 -> 12 jeagers is an unreasonable change, and it's far less knee-jerky than 13 -> 10.


Is nerfing the merc shipments that unreasonable though? Germany already gets insane value out of the big skirm and uhlan shipments. How is giving them mercenary shipments that are 30% better than other civs' necessary or desirable?
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Kiribati SirCallen
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23 Jul 2019, 05:38

Papist wrote:
SirCallen wrote:Well, their shipments require more xp.

No one has voiced concern that 13 -> 12 jeagers is an unreasonable change, and it's far less knee-jerky than 13 -> 10.


Is nerfing the merc shipments that unreasonable though? Germany already gets insane value out of the big skirm and uhlan shipments. How is giving them mercenary shipments that are 30% better than other civs' necessary or desirable?

Because their shipments cost more xp. They are more expensive, so they get more. Are you going to nerf 9 uhlan to 6? 8 uhlan to 5? 8 skirm + 3 uhlan to 8 skirm? That's how the civ bonus works.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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23 Jul 2019, 05:40

I don't think Ger is OP in the traditional sense that they can't be reasonably/realistically beat. I think Ger might take the cake for the easiest EP civ to play in a lot of MUs - which was reason enough for EP to nerf sepoys and jans - both of which nerfs I approve of.
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United States of America Papist
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23 Jul 2019, 05:43

SirCallen wrote:
Papist wrote:
SirCallen wrote:Well, their shipments require more xp.

No one has voiced concern that 13 -> 12 jeagers is an unreasonable change, and it's far less knee-jerky than 13 -> 10.


Is nerfing the merc shipments that unreasonable though? Germany already gets insane value out of the big skirm and uhlan shipments. How is giving them mercenary shipments that are 30% better than other civs' necessary or desirable?

Because their shipments cost more xp. They are more expensive, so they get more. Are you going to nerf 9 uhlan to 6? 8 uhlan to 5? 8 skirm + 3 uhlan to 8 skirm? That's how the civ bonus works.


If preserving the civ bonus is your concern, just give Germany +3 uhlans with the nerfed merc shipments like @007Salt suggested. And I'm not saying all German Fortress shipments should be nerfed. I'm not sure what gave you that impression.
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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23 Jul 2019, 05:44

brit semi age 3 non vc is worst possible build vs german. Brit long age 2 play is prob the best way to go, and I think its pretty fair MU. Map dependent ofc, but brits are fine if they have lots of hunt. Their age 3 is just so bad, especially vs german.
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