A typical game vs german

[Mitoe]

dident he Play France Germany against Prinz?

He did on a low resource map. He didn't vs rapha/mitoe however.

I'm pretty sure it was on Kamchatka, not a low resource map at all.

And just because he says he's confident he could beat Germany with another civ doesn't mean it's a bad strategy to mirror if you think you're still more likely to win the mirror than another matchup. Especially if it's the first game in the series then getting off to a good start is important. Mentality is important. Taking something that you're confident/comfortable with and avoiding a potential civ dance into something you're uncomfortable with is totally sound logic.

Not to mention--according to the rules--if he wins the mirrors he will have to play another civ vs Germany later in the series anyway because his opponent can still play Ger again. So either way he has to play a non-mirror vs Ger, it doesn't matter. He could play a non-mirror first and win and still end up with Ger mirror the next game.

[Kaiserklein]

Yea what Mitoe says. Just why the fuck would I not green up into ger mirror, knowing it's a mu I'm very good at. Would be the same in a french mirror. Playing a mirror in game 1 is convenient, since it means you don't have to do the dumb civ dancing.

And I played fr vs prince's ger on kamchatka. Just because it's a fine match up.

[bobabu]

Do you see word "evidence" in the quote or are you just a little dumb? @bobabu

What does it change ? It's still not empirical.

[Riotcoke]

Yea what Mitoe says. Just why the fuck would I not green up into ger mirror, knowing it's a mu I'm very good at. Would be the same in a french mirror. Playing a mirror in game 1 is convenient, since it means you don't have to do the dumb civ dancing.

And I played fr vs prince's ger on kamchatka. Just because it's a fine match up.

Mirrors mean a civ is op, didn't you know that? Rouga has been spouting it all the time!

[deleted_user0]

Do you see word "evidence" in the quote or are you just a little dumb? @bobabu

What does it change ? It's still not empirical.

So what I'm saying that based on experience, many pro players say that Germans seem to be op, so I don't really understand how am I using the word wrong?
Maybe you want to explain.
We are not talking about research. Simply the word "Empirism".

[juhjuh]

as much as i know there are tow from the top 8 hazza and diarouge. who else?

[[Armag] diarouga]

as much as i know there are tow from the top 8 hazza and diarouge. who else?

All the players who play Germany as one of their main civs (Mitoe, kaiser, rapha, erik and maybe prince) think that Germany is totally fine.
The others (hazza, me and maybe tabben) think that Germany is op.

You could say that we're biased because we don't play Germany. The real question though is, how come more than half of the top 8 players have Germany as their top3 civ?
Usually top players play the best civs, that's why we never see Aztec/Port on normal maps, while we see a lot of Ger/India.

[juhjuh]

well there are still 4 Players pro Germany and tow against it. Nerfing a civ bc of winning mus with like 55% to 45% seems unnecessary. In those situations the better Player will win most likely anyways. Maybe small Changes like 13 to 12 Jeagers or increasing there shipment penalty by a bit in age 3 and therefore Lifting it a bit in age 2 could be Justified. I think neither kaiser nor mitoe or erik would have something against that

[[Armag] diarouga]

well there are still 4 Players pro Germany and tow against it. Nerfing a civ bc of winning mus with like 55% to 45% seems unnecessary. In those situations the better Player will win most likely anyways. Maybe small Changes like 13 to 12 Jeagers or increasing there shipment penalty by a bit in age 3 and therefore Lifting it a bit in age 2 could be Justified. I think neither kaiser nor mitoe or erik would have something against that

55-45 is a big deal. It's not fair that half of the top8 can abuse their best civ because it's the best civ while some other players like me can't play their favourite civ because it's unplayable.

[juhjuh]

i think it would be great though to nerf Germany in a way so you can afterwords lift the Uhlan nerf

[juhjuh]

well there are still 4 Players pro Germany and tow against it. Nerfing a civ bc of winning mus with like 55% to 45% seems unnecessary. In those situations the better Player will win most likely anyways. Maybe small Changes like 13 to 12 Jeagers or increasing there shipment penalty by a bit in age 3 and therefore Lifting it a bit in age 2 could be Justified. I think neither kaiser nor mitoe or erik would have something against that

55-45 is a big deal. It's not fair that half of the top8 can abuse their best civ because it's the best civ while some other players like me can't play their favourite civ because it's unplayable.

jea but isent that a Problem of youre favourit civ and not a reason to nerf Germany? do you really think that in a 45 55 mu the better Play wont win?

[[Armag] diarouga]

well there are still 4 Players pro Germany and tow against it. Nerfing a civ bc of winning mus with like 55% to 45% seems unnecessary. In those situations the better Player will win most likely anyways. Maybe small Changes like 13 to 12 Jeagers or increasing there shipment penalty by a bit in age 3 and therefore Lifting it a bit in age 2 could be Justified. I think neither kaiser nor mitoe or erik would have something against that

55-45 is a big deal. It's not fair that half of the top8 can abuse their best civ because it's the best civ while some other players like me can't play their favourite civ because it's unplayable.

jea but isent that a Problem of youre favourit civ and not a reason to nerf Germany? do you really think that in a 45 55 mu the better Play wont win?

If both players are very close in skill then the Ger player will win most of the time and that's an issue.

[Mitoe]

as much as i know there are tow from the top 8 hazza and diarouge. who else?

All the players who play Germany as one of their main civs (Mitoe, kaiser, rapha, erik and maybe prince) think that Germany is totally fine.
The others (hazza, me and maybe tabben) think that Germany is op.

You could say that we're biased because we don't play Germany. The real question though is, how come more than half of the top 8 players have Germany as their top3 civ?
Usually top players play the best civs, that's why we never see Aztec/Port on normal maps, while we see a lot of Ger/India.

It’s actually a bit weird to still be considered a German player. I actually haven’t played them very much outside of mirroring for the last couple of years. I don’t think I played them a single time in the one ESOC tournament I won (edit: never mind I played them vs Tit in the RO8).

I also played very little India in the last year.

I think I’m still very good with both of them but I don’t think it’s fair to say that they’re part of the reason I made it to the LAN.

[juhjuh]

Show hidden quotes

well there are still 4 Players pro Germany and tow against it. Nerfing a civ bc of winning mus with like 55% to 45% seems unnecessary. In those situations the better Player will win most likely anyways. Maybe small Changes like 13 to 12 Jeagers or increasing there shipment penalty by a bit in age 3 and therefore Lifting it a bit in age 2 could be Justified. I think neither kaiser nor mitoe or erik would have something against that

55-45 is a big deal. It's not fair that half of the top8 can abuse their best civ because it's the best civ while some other players like me can't play their favourite civ because it's unplayable.

jea but isent that a Problem of youre favourit civ and not a reason to nerf Germany? do you really think that in a 45 55 mu the better Play wont win?

If both players are very close in skill then the Ger player will win most of the time and that's an issue.

i would say that such small differntes are more personall Feelings,playstyle
dfferences and not really objetciv. Aizamks playstyle kinda shows that there are no fixed ways a mu has to go and a lot is dependent on youre playstyle the same is true for kynesie i guess

[[Armag] diarouga]

I didn't say that you made it to the LAN thanks to Germany, but Germany is still your main civ. Thus, it makes sense for you to try to defend that civ.

[Mitoe]

Is it really my main civ though? I barely play it anymore; I don’t really enjoy playing them like I used to. I kinda feel like I don’t have a main civ right now—maybe China, as I played them a ton last year. Lately though I don’t really feel like playing them much.

I “defend” Germany insofar as I just don’t find them to be the clear best civ in the game. I don’t think they’re weak by any means but I definitely don’t think they’re as unbeatable as you and others claim they are.



That and everyone is terrible at coming up with German balance changes. 180hp is working fine, and all of the other changes suggested (except perhaps 12 Jaeger) just feel wrong and not like Germany.

[Kaiserklein]

Rofl, every tourney I'm telling Mitoe "play germany it's strong" and he doesn't
But yeah, he's a main german player, right. Therefore his opinion about germany has to be because he's biased. You lying piece of shit @Mitoe