Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by tedere12 »

so the uhlan nerf was a failure and an unnecessary change since people can bypass it.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by deleted_user »

Hardly unnecessary. Colonial uhlans die to one less hussar hit, but ok.
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

  • Quote

Post by Dsy »

tedere12 wrote:how did germany suddenly become OP? I'm pretty sure ger france were considered top tier on the first EP versions (not OP tho) and then got nerfed. Now suddenly germany is op without being changed.


France was nerfed, russia was buffed a bit.
Meanwhile i think russia is stronger than france. Or at least it used to when i played. :D
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by tedere12 »

Dsy wrote:
tedere12 wrote:how did germany suddenly become OP? I'm pretty sure ger france were considered top tier on the first EP versions (not OP tho) and then got nerfed. Now suddenly germany is op without being changed.


France was nerfed, russia was buffed a bit.
Meanwhile i think russia is stronger than france. Or at least it used to when i played. :D


Russia's only buff in current Ep is 17 strelets shipment switched to 20 strelets

deleted_user wrote:Hardly unnecessary. Colonial uhlans die to one less hussar hit, but ok.


not sure how relevant that is, since germany mostly goes for semi ff
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

tedere12 wrote:so the uhlan nerf was a failure and an unnecessary change since people can bypass it.

It wasn't unnecessary because without it skirm/uhlan would still be op, but yea people bypass it.

Russia got buffed btw, musketeers are les expensive.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Hazza54321 »

tedere12 wrote:
Dsy wrote:
tedere12 wrote:how did germany suddenly become OP? I'm pretty sure ger france were considered top tier on the first EP versions (not OP tho) and then got nerfed. Now suddenly germany is op without being changed.


France was nerfed, russia was buffed a bit.
Meanwhile i think russia is stronger than france. Or at least it used to when i played. :D


Russia's only buff in current Ep is 17 strelets shipment switched to 20 strelets

deleted_user wrote:Hardly unnecessary. Colonial uhlans die to one less hussar hit, but ok.


not sure how relevant that is, since germany mostly goes for semi ff

Ruskets are cheaper
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by deleted_user »

tedere12 wrote:
Dsy wrote:
tedere12 wrote:how did germany suddenly become OP? I'm pretty sure ger france were considered top tier on the first EP versions (not OP tho) and then got nerfed. Now suddenly germany is op without being changed.


France was nerfed, russia was buffed a bit.
Meanwhile i think russia is stronger than france. Or at least it used to when i played. :D


Russia's only buff in current Ep is 17 strelets shipment switched to 20 strelets

deleted_user wrote:Hardly unnecessary. Colonial uhlans die to one less hussar hit, but ok.


not sure how relevant that is, since germany mostly goes for semi ff

It's clearly relevant for more reasons than I stated.
No Flag bepsi
Musketeer
Posts: 92
Joined: Aug 26, 2015

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by bepsi »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, people used to go skirm/uhlan and never make a single WW (that was the H2O rule). Now people just go skim/jaeger/WW and it's even better than what the ger players used to do.


Hang on. Since WWs have been left untouched in the EP patch skirm/Jaeger/WW would be a strong alternative to skrim/uhlan (maybe better?) on the RE patch as well?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bepsi wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, people used to go skirm/uhlan and never make a single WW (that was the H2O rule). Now people just go skim/jaeger/WW and it's even better than what the ger players used to do.


Hang on. Since WWs have been left untouched in the EP patch skirm/Jaeger/WW would be a strong alternative to skrim/uhlan (maybe better?) on the RE patch as well?

Yes. Both are as good with EP uhlans in my opinion, but I guess skirm/uhlan is easier.
User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
Retired Contributor
ECL Reigning ChampsDonator 01
Posts: 4088
Joined: May 7, 2019
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Dorsetshire
Clan: UwU

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Riotcoke »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bepsi wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, people used to go skirm/uhlan and never make a single WW (that was the H2O rule). Now people just go skim/jaeger/WW and it's even better than what the ger players used to do.


Hang on. Since WWs have been left untouched in the EP patch skirm/Jaeger/WW would be a strong alternative to skrim/uhlan (maybe better?) on the RE patch as well?

Yes. Both are as good with EP uhlans in my opinion, but I guess skirm/uhlan is easier.

WW are so annoying though.
Image

twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Kaiserklein »

Skirm/uhlan isn't a thing in 90% of games. And WWs are still easily worse than goons
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Hazza54321 »

Ww are better at sniping falcs, and probably trade vs goons cost effectively
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Kaiserklein »

Sure they're better at sniping falcs and also vs musk/huss. They lose to goons though, and just get sniped down much faster by ranged units generally speaking. And they can get caught by a cav mass unlike goons and suck at kiting
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
Retired Contributor
ECL Reigning ChampsDonator 01
Posts: 4088
Joined: May 7, 2019
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Dorsetshire
Clan: UwU

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Riotcoke »

Goons are much easier to use and better units, ww are just better vs musk and falcs, i think goons are better.
Image

twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by amiggo1999 »

Aren't WW also more efficient vs tanky cav (cuirs, Mahout, Mams, etc.) than goons?
Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Kaiserklein »

Why would they?
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by amiggo1999 »

Don't WW have better dmg/cost?
Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Kaiserklein »

Nah they dps almost exactly the same. 5 goons and 3 ww cost exactly the same 450f 450g, and 5 goons deal 5*22*1.2 = 132 while 3 wws deal 3*42 = 126 damage per volley.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by amiggo1999 »

I did the Math, and WW have about 12% more dmg/cost, meaning vs tanky cav they should be more efficient, as overkill becomes much less of a problem.
WW dmg/cost (0,14) Goon dmg/cost (0,122)
Image Image
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by amiggo1999 »

why did you do add *1.2 to the calculation of goon dmg @Kaiserklein ?
Image Image
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Garja »

vet goons I guess.
Anyway WW in mass are pretty annoying. It's just lot of strong units against which you need lot of counter units and that opens up for weaknesses in opponent combo.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
Retired Contributor
ECL Reigning ChampsDonator 01
Posts: 4088
Joined: May 7, 2019
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Dorsetshire
Clan: UwU

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Riotcoke »

WW scale better with ups as well. Too bad their overkill on cav like huss sucks.
Image

twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by amiggo1999 »

Ah ok. Man this aoe3 wiki source is tilting me. Always need to check if the stats refer to age 2 or 3.
Image Image
User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
Retired Contributor
ECL Reigning ChampsDonator 01
Posts: 4088
Joined: May 7, 2019
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Dorsetshire
Clan: UwU

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by Riotcoke »

amiggo1999 wrote:Ah ok. Man this aoe3 wiki source is tilting me. Always need to check if the stats refer to age 2 or 3.

The wiki is generally shit
Image

twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: Kaiser vs Somppu indirect grudge match

Post by princeofcarthage »

Goons has marginally higher attack/res while WW has higher hp/res
Fine line to something great is a strange change.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV