Best first shipment for China?

[randerzbobanderz]

It seems like a waste of Villager seconds in age 1 to chop to build two villages to get 3 vills out of northern refugees. Would saving the card for later and instead going for a TP and village be better or similar?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Usually you go for a TP and chop for a village, and then you send the 2 villagers.
2 vill is not the greatest shipment in the game but still better than skipping it.

[Mitoe]

It’s not a waste of villager seconds, and going for a TP and a Village is indeed the best thing to do in age 1 most of the time.

However, there are no good solid alternatives to Northern Refugees, so you still send that even for only 2v.

[randerzbobanderz]

I see thanks! It feels so weird sending a 2 vil shipment. What about 300 food and then sending Northern Refugees later on in the game?

You could benefit from an early eco boost and save the shipment for later on when its stronger.

[scarm]

Is Trade Empire / Asian ATP bad?

[Mitoe]

I see thanks! It feels so weird sending a 2 vil shipment. What about 300 food and then sending Northern Refugees later on in the game?

You could benefit from an early eco boost and save the shipment for later on when its stronger.

You mostly don't have time to send it later on, so there's not much point in waiting--especially since 2v are still worth more than 300f pretty quickly. Usually by the time you would consider sending it you will already be mid Fortress and 1000w or an upgrade or simply another military shipment will serve you better.

Trade Empire isn't great, but in some situations you can possibly do Trade Empire + 300w and get 4 TPs very quickly without slowing down your build (aside from being down 2 vills). I've not really experimented much at all with this but who knows.

In general though you should just send vills.

[Cometk]

@deleted_user sends sumptuary laws on tp maps

[Mitoe]

Yeah but don't listen to Umeu IMO--as much as I respect him and his builds (thanks for all your tutorship @deleted_user), Sumptuary Laws has never felt good whenever I've attempted it.

[scarm]

Just did some math on it, while hard to quantify sumptuary laws seems to be about 2,1 vills
1,54 from F/W/G
0,15 Xp, considering TPs give about 1,2 and are considered to be worth 3-4 vills thats about 0,3 vills.
0,15 export is the hardest to quantify, i tried to get to a VS equivalent by using the cost of a 6 Recoat Company assuming they are like normal musks, in that specific case 1 Export was worth 2,29 VS or sth, meaning 0,15 export is about 0,3 Vills.

[gibson]

also an advantage of sumptuary laws( im not advocating for it btw) is that it cant get idled, and in a lot of mus china has a decent amount of idle time

[Mitoe]

The export is worth about 15 vills generating export, or something like that. But while that sounds like a lot, it isn't.

Sure technically the trickles are worth nearly 2v as well, but having them so spread out among food/wood/gold actually makes it much more difficult to accumulate enough to be spent easily. It's just bad, I think.

[Riotcoke]

The export is worth about 15 vills generating export, or something like that. But while that sounds like a lot, it isn't.

Sure technically the trickles are worth 2v as well, but having them so spread out among food/wood/gold actually makes it much more difficult to accumulate enough to be spent easily. It's just bad, I think.

It's 5 vills, Chrisie kept trying to advocate it at lan.

[Mitoe]

Wait that's way worse than I thought

[Riotcoke]

Yeah it's 0.15, each vill gets 0.03 so it's 5.

[gh0st]

@sudmakmak thoughts?

[gamevideo113]

The first shipment of china is typically Northern Refugees, if you want to be sure go for that one, although i like to think that there are viable alternatives.
If you are expecting a rush (especially an all-in one) Boxer Rebellion can be a reasonable alternative of course.
Commodities Market might be used in a no 700c FF imo. Not sure how viable it is compared to Mitoe's one, it would need to be tested.
Good Faith Agreements is good in my opinion with some greedy team builds (possibly also in 1v1, but don't quote me on this because i think FFing is probably the better alternative 99% of the times), at least at around PR 25 level.

[deleted_user0]

Yeah but don't listen to Umeu IMO--as much as I respect him and his builds (thanks for all your tutorship @deleted_user), Sumptuary Laws has never felt good whenever I've attempted it.

Because you play china differently than me. I've used it even in mirrors vs you and also vs lukas and did well in those games with it.

But as @Cometk says, i actually only send it on a tp map, because 3v > sumptuary laws. I dont send that card for the xp but for export, meaning that your 400 ex aka 6 muskets arrive 1 min earlier easily, while it barely slows down your age up time. At most it slows down your time to colonial by 10-15 sec, but only if you have no food tres or wood tres before village is up. And it doesnt slow down your time to fortress, and it speeds up your market a lil bit. The card is best in mus where a lot of vils will get idled, as obviously a trickle cant be idled.

When you need to hold a timing, 6 muskets at 10 can win you the the game, while you lose with 6 at 11.30 (as idling will mean youll get them even later). Sure, if you go super greedy, as you do, then it's not as good. But your style isnt always the best, imo its only favorable in mirrors, tbh.

[dansil92]

My personal build for a china ff is to ship 300 wood first and get my tp and second village from it without chopping at all, significantly speeding the age times. It is less economic than what mitoe plays but i prefer to play less greedy as China for 2 reasons:
1: china fortress unit shipments are powerful and the amount of shadowtech units is just stupid
2: the units are bascially free and more eco seems reduntant to me when im playing agressive. The porcelain tower is like 8 vills why should i worry about getting 2 extra in exchange for 30 seconds slower age

I know im probably wrong but this is my china style and its worked well for me

[deleted_user]

I haven't aged with skirm wonder in 2 years and I'm lt col with a 38% china win rate so I'm right.

[gamevideo113]

About what?

[Cometk]

@gamevideo113 Life

[gamevideo113]

I guess I can agree with that

[sudmakmak]

@sudmakmak thoughts?

At last tournament, u seen Who play china won for 1st champion.

[zoom]

Sumptuary Laws – no buts!!

[vividlyplain]

At least the two vills from northern refugees scales better as they are upgradeable.


[spoiler=spoiler]I just added sumptuary laws to my deck.[/spoiler]